Just what IS "marriage" anyway?

[burd]

Re: Just what IS "marriage" anyway?

If Jesus is that guy whose pic hangs in every church basement in the midwest, he was no jew. Swede by way of California. Since Mary apparently spend some of her later years in Ephesus, a Greco-Roman city on the Aegean that was probably a lot like Venice or Santa Monica, maybe the hippy, SoCal look makes sense. Good thing, because it's hard to see him as Allen Ginsberg or Woody Allen.

[leswp1]

Re: Just what IS "marriage" anyway?

I thought he had a girlfriend, and they changed the Bible in order to force ministers into celibacy...

Nope that is 'doctrine' that came after the Bible. Timothy 3 says that to be a Deacon of the church you must be married, have a righteous wife and upstanding children. Celibacy came later when the church needed the property that the wives were all keeping all the property after the priests died.

[Bob Gray]

Re: Just what IS "marriage" anyway?

Nope that is 'doctrine' that came after the Bible. Timothy 3 says that to be a Deacon of the church you must be married, have a righteous wife and upstanding children. Celibacy came later when the church needed the property that the wives were all keeping all the property after the priests died.

And by the church that would be specifically the Catholic Church, as most Christian groups don't have any sort of celibacy requirement.

[FlagDUDE08]

Re: Just what IS "marriage" anyway?

And by the church that would be specifically the Catholic Church, as most Christian groups don't have any sort of celibacy requirement.

But considering most of the other Christian groups were created as a schism from the Roman Catholics...

[Bob Gray]

Re: Just what IS "marriage" anyway?

But considering most of the other Christian groups were created as a schism from the Roman Catholics...

Means they didn't agree with the Catholics on some things?

[5mn_Major]

Re: Just what IS "marriage" anyway?

Finally a Pope that puts Jesus in front of doctrine (IMO). 1. The bible has some opinion on homosexuality in terms of its message to you as an individual reader 2. In terms of its implications for others, Jesus was loud and clear in that you should not judge others...ie, the messages on behavior are meant for you the reader and not how you should approach others (see the golden rule). Hence, 'do not judge' trumps taking a stand on homosexuality.

“If someone is gay and he searches for the Lord and has good will, who am I to judge?” Pope Francis said in a wide-ranging news conference aboard the papal plane.

[Priceless]

Re: Just what IS "marriage" anyway?

Finally a Pope that puts Jesus in front of doctrine (IMO). 1. The bible has some opinion on homosexuality in terms of its message to you as an individual reader 2. In terms of its implications for others, Jesus was loud and clear in that you should not judge others...ie, the messages on behavior are meant for you the reader and not how you should approach others (see the golden rule). Hence, 'do not judge' trumps taking a stand on homosexuality.

“If someone is gay and he searches for the Lord and has good will, who am I to judge?” Pope Francis said in a wide-ranging news conference aboard the papal plane.

I just read that. I cannot remember the last time a religious leader said something that was so moving. I'm sure our usual suspects will assume I'm joking or grandstanding or something, but I am seriously on the verge of tears. With just a few words he cut through the usual demagoguery we're used to and spoke a truth that few in the Church would dare utter (if they even believed it). Add to this the comments he has made about helping the poorest among us and we have a Pope who actually believes in the deeds and words of Jesus Christ, not 20 centuries of PR department spin. This is truly a momentous day.

ETA: Pope Francis full quote: "Who am I to judge a gay person of goodwill who seeks the Lord? You can't marginalize these people."

[unofan]

I just read that. I cannot remember the last time a religious leader said something that was so moving. I'm sure our usual suspects will assume I'm joking or grandstanding or something, but I am seriously on the verge of tears. With just a few words he cut through the usual demagoguery we're used to and spoke a truth that few in the Church would dare utter (if they even believed it). Add to this the comments he has made about helping the poorest among us and we have a Pope who actually believes in the deeds and words of Jesus Christ, not 20 centuries of PR department spin. This is truly a momentous day.

Jesuits are awesome. They're essentially the Church's academics, and as a whole cut thru a lot of the b.s.

His contrast to Benedict, the insider of insiders, is amazing

[Handyman]

Re: Just what IS "marriage" anyway?

That is an awesome quote...Pope Francis has done more to rehab the image of the Church in a few months than most Popes could do in a lifetime.

[Bob Gray]

Re: Just what IS "marriage" anyway?

Good job by Francis. I don't think he said anything really groundbreaking, but in this instance, and others, I like his tone. While he was clear that he wasn't changing anything in church doctrine, his tone was to emphasize treating others well and not just pointing out how there continues to be disagreement on certain issues. May others learn from this.

[FadeToBlack&Gold]

Re: Just what IS "marriage" anyway?

The media is acting like the Pope has openly endorsed homosexuality, which he definitely did not do. In the same breath just prior to the "who am I to judge?" line he said, ""When I meet a gay person, I have to distinguish between their being gay and being part of a lobby."

So in other words, he's fine with Catholics being gay, as long as they keep their mouth shut about it.

Not to mention that Catholic priests are supposed to be celibate anyway (despite recent scandals), so this shift on gay priests isn't really a momentous, groundbreaking statement that sweeps aside centuries of dogma. It just softens the rhetoric a bit.

[5mn_Major]

Re: Just what IS "marriage" anyway?

The media is acting like the Pope has openly endorsed homosexuality, which he definitely did not do.

Which makes him open minded. Few straights 'endorse' homosexuality.

[SJHovey]

Re: Just what IS "marriage" anyway?

the "who am I to judge?" line

When I first read about this line, my reaction was, "You're the friggin' Pope."

[Priceless]

I don't think he said anything really groundbreaking

Right. The most powerful man in the Catholic Church just said gay people shouldn't be judged or marginalized and it was just another statement. I'm sure that belief was predominant in church circles prior to yesterday. Probably why gays felt so warm and fuzzy about the church.

[FlagDUDE08]

Re: Just what IS "marriage" anyway?

This has to be the first Pope since Peter Rabbit to lead the Church inside of claim Divine Right.