Just what IS "marriage" anyway?

[Rimbaud]

Re: Just what IS "marriage" anyway?

Let's try something.



Should they be allowed to exclude little white boys or black boys or brown boys or orange boys?

Should they be? Yes. Should they be ridiculed for it? Of course.

The rhetoric Bob is using, that acceptance of homosexuals into our society is a ghastly wave destroying the moral fabric of this once great country, is quite repugnant. But that's a different story.

[Priceless]

Re: Just what IS "marriage" anyway?

Should the Black Panthers be allowed to exclude white people form their ranks?

I don't see why, especially if they take taxpayer money.

[FlagDUDE08]

Re: Just what IS "marriage" anyway?

Should they be? Yes. Should they be ridiculed for it? Of course.

The rhetoric Bob is using, that acceptance of homosexuals into our society is a ghastly wave destroying the moral fabric of this once great country, is quite repugnant. But that's a different story.

Acceptance (or even tolerance) of a group into society is one thing. Forcing a private group with the right to refuse service to anyone to accept members is completely another. The Augusta Club (yes, those green jackets actually signify membership) just recently admitted the first woman into the golf club. Recall that admittance to the club is by invitation only. I don't recall hearing the stains complaining about that. Or are women not very high on their priority list, assuming they ever were?

[Bob Gray]

Re: Just what IS "marriage" anyway?

It's not a red herring. It's an honest question. That it makes you uncomfortable is another issue best discussed between you and your shrink.

Uh, yah.

I'm just fine, thank you. A little tired after a busy weekend full of yard projects and get togethers, but nothing more. Thanks.

[Bob Gray]

Re: Just what IS "marriage" anyway?

Should the Black Panthers be allowed to exclude white people form their ranks?

It's only ok to be exclusive when it's ok to be exclusive. Or so the reasoning seems to go.

[Priceless]

Re: Just what IS "marriage" anyway?

Acceptance (or even tolerance) of a group into society is one thing. Forcing a private group with the right to refuse service to anyone to accept members is completely another. The Augusta Club (yes, those green jackets actually signify membership) just recently admitted the first woman into the golf club. Recall that admittance to the club is by invitation only. I don't recall hearing the stains complaining about that. Or are women not very high on their priority list, assuming they ever were?

Guess you weren't paying attention. I recall the protests by Martha Burk and others that led the Masters to have only a couple of corporate partners and run almost entirely commercial-free.

[unofan]

The Boy Scouts have been pressured into making a change against who they've been their entire existence and against what at least a good chunk of the folks who send their kids to the Boy Scouts believe. All groups set all kinds of standards of what they believe in or not and what is acceptable or not acceptable for membership and participation in their groups. But, I guess the right of association, as with other rights in this country, isn't what it once was. This is simply a case where one group is forcing their views on the other group and won't rest until all differing perspectives are crushed. The Boy Scouts I'm sure have a number of criteria for who should be in leadership beyond this one, and if someone can't meet any of those standards, then they shouldn't be in leadership.

If sexuality isn't important, then why has everybody been having a fit at the Boy Scouts for the last umpteen years because they don't embrace the views others are forcing upon them? You can't go both ways at once. Certainly it's not the only or primary thing to focus on, but obviously it's important enough that people have exerted enormous pressure to the point the Scouts finally caved in. Can't blame them as I said. The ugliness that came up against them is washing across this nation and will come up against anyone else who doesn't think and do as some people say they should.

Because the boy scouts are the one making it an issue. They see two otherwise identical scouts, but say to one "you're not qualified because you're gay."

Also, seeing as this was a change from within, how are you so certain that a good portion of its members wanted the status quo? It appears a larger portion was willing to embrace the change for the betterment of the scouts.

[FadeToBlack&Gold]

Re: Just what IS "marriage" anyway?

What's with all the chatter about the BSA being forced to change? It was discussed for years, their leadership took a vote, and the outcome was 61-39. Some people are acting like a hypothetical Obama commission or committee threatened to sue the BSA if they didn't change.

This won't change anything else in the foreseeable future.

[unofan]

Guess you weren't paying attention. I recall the protests by Martha Burk and others that led the Masters to have only a couple of corporate partners and run almost entirely commercial-free.

Seriously? He doesn't remember the uproar from just the last year when the new ceo of ibm, a woman, wasn't given the traditional invite extended to the ceo of ibm?

As I said at the time, it was well within their right to do so, but it makes them look really really bad.

[unofan]

Should the Black Panthers be allowed to exclude white people form their ranks?

Allowed to? Yes. Pressured to not do that? Also yes.

[Rover]

Re: Just what IS "marriage" anyway?

While I'm well aware of my reputation for making fun of social conservatives, I usually do so because they're talking the talk and not walking the walk. On this issue I do have some sympathy for those who are watching society change rather rapidly before their eyes. Lots of people long for a simpler time when people weren't forced to confront these issues.

My state was at the epicenter of this issue and in all honesty my position going in was that civil unions were a preferable alternative for granting rights. But, the court ruled and I can say my life or my state hasn't changed any because of it. Society evolves whether we want it to or not. For thousands of years, up until fairly recently in the grand scheme of things, slavery wasn't just tolerated. It was the norm. Even today there are most likely people walking around who's grandparents were born into slavery in the US. Society changed for the better on that one, even though the practice had survived since the dawn of time.

Now I'm not equating gay marriage with slavery, but sometimes things evolve your way and sometimes they don't.

Regarding the Boy Scouts or Augusta, nobody forced them to enact changes. Clearly they faced some pressure, but that's life. Every entity is facing pressure from this group or that, from the right or from the left, at one point or another. That's what happens in a free society.

[Priceless]

Re: Just what IS "marriage" anyway?

Should the Black Panthers be allowed to exclude white people form their ranks?

I don't see why, especially if they take taxpayer money.

It's only ok to be exclusive when it's ok to be exclusive. Or so the reasoning seems to go.

It doesn't even matter that I agreed with the hypothetical put forth by Shirtless...Bob is going to criticize anyway...

[WisconsinWildcard]

Re: Just what IS "marriage" anyway?

We all agree that's not a good road to get to marriage. But,this quote confuses the road one gets to marriage with marriage itself. I'm pretty sure those marriages were male-female, just like pretty much always in every culture until this latest social trend. So no redefinition of marriage itself. But, hey, details, details, huh?

Who or what determines where the line is from the road to getting to marriage and marriage itself. To you, is the real definition of marriage only that it includes a p enis and a vagina?

Any time someone brings up a counter point illustrating that marriage is a fluid, societal based construct, all that apparently needs to be said in counterargument is that the true Definition of Marriage (TM) was never changed. Convenient how this definition evades detection like the God of the Gaps.

[unofan]

Who or what determines where the line is from the road to getting to marriage and marriage itself. To you, is the real definition of marriage only that it includes a p enis and a vagina?

One male and at least one female. Remember, polygamy was quite acceptable in the old testament.

Apparently it is no longer acceptable, but nevertheless marriage never was redefined. Or something.

Did I tell you about the onion bob wore on his belt, as was the style at the time?

[WisconsinWildcard]

Re: Just what IS "marriage" anyway?

Did I tell you about the onion bob wore on his belt, as was the style at the time?