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Just what IS "marriage" anyway?

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  • Originally posted by FreshFish View Post
    I've suggested that gays recognize that civil unions are marriage, and be happy that they just received what they asked for, solely out of deference to people who believe only in the sacramental version. To me, there is no practical difference between the two; but if it works as a compromise that both sides can live with, why not?.
    Because marriage is a fundamental right, and you don't comprimise on those. You also apparently missed the very point of the article you posted. If the term doesn't matter, why prevent it from being applied to same sex couples? Why should they have to comprimise to satisfy bigotry?

    This is a generational issue. 81% of people under 30 support it. In 20 years, people will wonder what the big deal was, just as we do now with interracial marriage.
    Last edited by unofan; 04-09-2013, 04:45 PM.

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    • Re: Just what IS "marriage" anyway?

      Originally posted by unofan View Post
      This is a generational issue. 81% of people under 30 support it. In 20 years, people will wonder what the big deal was, just as we do now with interracial marriage.
      Funny how people who are old enough to have lived during it, still think separate but equal is a valid suggestion.

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      • Re: Just what IS "marriage" anyway?

        Originally posted by FlagDUDE08 View Post
        Replace the Bible and Christ's message with any religion or cult, and you've pretty much hit the nail on the head.
        Totally disagree. Totally.

        Originally posted by 5mn_Major View Post
        There is significant validity that the only way to heaven is through Christ and that helping others to find it is 'blessed'. Although it is an outstanding Biblical question whether that means literally through outright belief in Him...or whether its through adherance to what He espouses - the Word. I happen to believe the latter..and that those who are good people will not go to hell (including if they've never been exposed to Christianity).

        The problem is that at best many misunderstand and at worst many consciously misuse the Bible to preach to others about how they should be living. Misapplication of the Bible has led to much societal alienation and much worse (see the inquisition, crusades) and still goes on today. For example, an evangelical could likely preach someone who more closely follows Jesus' teaching than the evangical him/herself does.

        IMO definition of marriage is one such area. I really don't know where Jesus would come down on the issue. But many evangicals appear to have no doubt.
        While I agree that marriage is one area, I disagree with a lot of the rest. I have a tough time saying for instance, that if you are not a Christian, God is not going to find a way to interact with you. I don't think any Buddhist etc is not going to be with God simply because he is not Christian. I think that's narrow minded to tell the truth.

        Originally posted by unofan View Post
        as the saying goes, the devil is in the details.

        Who gets to pick the right interpretation? Who gets to say which part of the contradiction is right, and which we ignore? How do we get to that point? Many Christian denomenations say drinking is a sin, yet Jesus's first miracle was turning water to wine.

        I guess I have no problem with people who view the bible as a book with lots of good advice and who wish to follow it for that reason. I struggle with people who believe in a literal interpretation of it and try to use it to justify imposing their vision of it on others, because a literal interpretation requires one to ignore the self-contradictions within the book, let alone things that science has proven to be incorrect.
        I think it's a mistake to view the bible literally. It leads you down so many roads that are indefensible and many more that you don't even know about. More to the point, I use it as a guide for life, and I try to take the parables that Christ taught as lessons in how to treat people, and so yes it is actions in some ways, plus the benefits of going to church are very helpful when life gets harder.
        MTU: Three time NCAA champions.

        It never get's easier, you just go faster. -Greg Lemond

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        • Re: Just what IS "marriage" anyway?

          Originally posted by unofan View Post
          Because marriage is a fundamental right, and you don't comprimise on those. You also apparently missed the very point of the article you posted. If the term doesn't matter, why prevent it from being applied to same sex couples? Why should they have to comprimise to satisfy bigotry?

          This is a generational issue. 81% of people under 30 support it. In 20 years, people will wonder what the big deal was, just as we do now with interracial marriage.
          If marriage is a fundamental right, then that makes celibates inhumane?

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          • Re: Just what IS "marriage" anyway?

            Originally posted by unofun View Post
            If the term [civil union] doesn't matter, why prevent it from being applied to same sex couples? Why should they have to comprimise to satisfy bigotry?
            No one said anything about "have to." Once upon a time, people actually wanted to get along with their neighbors. If I could go along with something that had symbolic value for them, then why wouldn't I want to be accommodating, especially when I got something of real tangible value in return?

            Pushing for the very last scrap, "give me everything to which I am entitled" doesn't seem to help people get along very well now, does it?
            "Hope is a good thing; maybe the best of things."

            "Beer is a sign that God loves us and wants us to be happy." -- Benjamin Franklin

            "Being Irish, he had an abiding sense of tragedy, which sustained him through temporary periods of joy." -- W. B. Yeats

            "People generally are most impatient with those flaws in others about which they are most ashamed of in themselves." - folk wisdom

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            • Originally posted by FreshFish View Post
              No one said anything about "have to." Once upon a time, people actually wanted to get along with their neighbors. If I could go along with something that had symbolic value for them, then why wouldn't I want to be accommodating, especially when I got something of real tangible value in return?

              Pushing for the very last scrap, "give me everything to which I am entitled" doesn't seem to help people get along very well now, does it?
              So African-Americans should have settled for separate but equal just to be neighborly, is that it? After all, they got something of real tangible value in return.

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              • Originally posted by FlagDUDE08 View Post
                If marriage is a fundamental right, then that makes celibates inhumane?
                No more so than you when you ignore your right to remain silent by constantly subjecting the rest of us to your not-so-witty attempts at trolling.
                Last edited by unofan; 04-10-2013, 09:46 AM.

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                • Re: Just what IS "marriage" anyway?

                  Originally posted by FlagDUDE08 View Post
                  If marriage is a fundamental right, then that makes celibates inhumane?
                  *headdesk* If you can't grasp the distinction between HAVING a right and choosing to exercise it, you're denser than I thought.

                  Originally posted by FreshFish View Post
                  If I could go along with something that had symbolic value for them, then why wouldn't I want to be accommodating, especially when I got something of real tangible value in return?

                  Pushing for the very last scrap, "give me everything to which I am entitled" doesn't seem to help people get along very well now, does it?
                  You're right! Women should have been happy their husbands let them out of the kitchen, why did they have to push for the right to vote? And separate but equal was surely good enough, even the Supreme Court agreed in Plessy v. Ferguson! How dare those uppity minorities push further for actual equality?!

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                  • Re: Just what IS "marriage" anyway?

                    Originally posted by DisplacedCornellian View Post

                    You're right! Women should have been happy their husbands let them out of the kitchen, why did they have to push for the right to vote? And separate but equal was surely good enough, even the Supreme Court agreed in Plessy v. Ferguson! How dare those uppity minorities push further for actual equality?!
                    Considering that heterosexuals have been granted civil unions for centuries, how is granting same sex couples civil unions anything other than equality?

                    You wanted equal recognition under the law, you have it. That's "actual equality" isn't it?

                    I'll take the actual substance, thank you very much. Don't hurt your arm by patting yourself on the back so vigorously over your symbolic purity.
                    "Hope is a good thing; maybe the best of things."

                    "Beer is a sign that God loves us and wants us to be happy." -- Benjamin Franklin

                    "Being Irish, he had an abiding sense of tragedy, which sustained him through temporary periods of joy." -- W. B. Yeats

                    "People generally are most impatient with those flaws in others about which they are most ashamed of in themselves." - folk wisdom

                    Comment


                    • Re: Just what IS "marriage" anyway?

                      Originally posted by FreshFish View Post
                      Considering that heterosexuals have been granted civil unions for centuries, how is granting same sex couples civil unions anything other than equality?

                      You wanted equal recognition under the law, you have it. That's "actual equality" isn't it?
                      No. If the law didn't also recognize "marriage" between heterosexuals, then maybe. But since it does, no. Even if both groups get A, that doesn't negate the fact that one group gets B and the other does not.

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                      • Re: Just what IS "marriage" anyway?

                        Originally posted by DisplacedCornellian View Post
                        *headdesk* If you can't grasp the distinction between HAVING a right and choosing to exercise it, you're denser than I thought.
                        So women hating me is my choice? DIAF.

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                        • Re: Just what IS "marriage" anyway?

                          Originally posted by FlagDUDE08 View Post
                          So women hating me is my choice? DIAF.
                          If, by your actions it happens, then yes.
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                          • Originally posted by FreshFish View Post
                            Considering that heterosexuals have been granted civil unions for centuries, how is granting same sex couples civil unions anything other than equality?

                            You wanted equal recognition under the law, you have it. That's "actual equality" isn't it?

                            I'll take the actual substance, thank you very much. Don't hurt your arm by patting yourself on the back so vigorously over your symbolic purity.
                            If marriage is purely symbolic, why does it need defending from the gays?

                            And even if it is, why should that symbol be exclusive to heterosexuals?

                            My wife and I don't have a civil union license from the government, we have a marriage license. So your entire point is crap, anyhow.

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                            • Re: Just what IS "marriage" anyway?

                              Originally posted by FlagDUDE08 View Post
                              So women hating me is my choice? DIAF.
                              Originally posted by joecct View Post
                              If, by your actions it happens, then yes.
                              What he said. If you choose to act in a way that repulses them, that's on you. I'm going to assume your behavior is the culprit. I have no idea what you look like, but I know plenty of ugly guys who get action, so that's no excuse.

                              Anyway, you still have the right to get married, even if you don't have the ability.

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                              • Re: Just what IS "marriage" anyway?

                                Originally posted by DisplacedCornellian View Post
                                What he said. If you choose to act in a way that repulses them, that's on you. I'm going to assume your behavior is the culprit. I have no idea what you look like, but I know plenty of ugly guys who get action, so that's no excuse.

                                Anyway, you still have the right to get married, even if you don't have the ability.
                                By your definition, so do the people that you all are whining about.

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