Just what IS "marriage" anyway?

[FlagDUDE08]

Re: Just what IS "marriage" anyway?

I don't buy the slippery slope argument which I think you are alluding to here. I agree more with St Clown here. I'd say there is about zero chance that gay marriage being legal leads to adults marrying children / animals / plants or wherever else someone could dream up.

In olden days, a glimpse of stocking was looked on as something shocking, but now God knows... Anything Goes!

[Priceless]

Re: Just what IS "marriage" anyway?

Letting TEH GAYS!! marry will lead to man on box turtle sex! And who knows what else! Just look what happened when we allowed whites and blacks to marry!

[WisconsinWildcard]

Re: Just what IS "marriage" anyway?

I wish!!

I can't remember where I saw it, but the other day there was a story about two people in what used to be called an "old folks' home" (I forget the PC term I'm supposed to use in these enlightened times). They had dementia and engaged in sexual intercourse, and people on the staff were worried about whether they had the capacity to form intent.

If you are horny you want to have sex even if you also have dementia: but does that mean you are a "consenting" adult??

Not that I saw the story but I would be willing to bet they were trying to determine if the individuals had "decision making capacity" instead of "consenting." Decision making capacity is a medical term that refers to an individual's ability to make decisions (medical or sometimes otherwise). It is made by medical personnel and does not require a court hearing. It relies on the ability for a patient to understand, evaluate and communication. Since the two people were in a medical facility under supervised care, I think they would have to determine if said patients were "decisional" or "capacitated." If they were deemed medically to be incapacitated, decisions can be based on substituted judgement (surrogate determination) or best interests (based on what a reasonable person might choose regarding ultimately the best in set particular circumstances).

Medical ethics is a bit complex but necessary to wade through difficult situations. It is often used to protect an individual in a transient state of inhibited decisional capacity from doing something dangerous or reckless. Like someone in a psychiatric crisis wanting to commit suicide. It is a bit more dicey in a (assumed) permanent disorder like dementia caused by Alzheimer's.

On the otherside, "competence" is a legal term referring to the ability of a person to make decisions about his or her affairs. Legally, an adult patient remains competent until a court says otherwise.

[WisconsinWildcard]

Re: Just what IS "marriage" anyway?

In olden days, a glimpse of stocking was looked on as something shocking, but now God knows... Anything Goes!

I knew women should not have gotten the right to vote...

[leswp1]

Re: Just what IS "marriage" anyway?

Not that I saw the story but I would be willing to bet they were trying to determine if the individuals had "decision making capacity" instead of "consenting." Decision making capacity is a medical term that refers to an individual's ability to make decisions (medical or sometimes otherwise). It is made by medical personnel and does not require a court hearing. It relies on the ability for a patient to understand, evaluate and communication. Since the two people were in a medical facility under supervised care, I think they would have to determine if said patients were "decisional" or "capacitated." If they were deemed medically to be incapacitated, decisions can be based on substituted judgement (surrogate determination) or best interests (based on what a reasonable person might choose regarding ultimately the best in set particular circumstances).

Medical ethics is a bit complex but necessary to wade through difficult situations. It is often used to protect an individual in a transient state of inhibited decisional capacity from doing something dangerous or reckless. Like someone in a psychiatric crisis wanting to commit suicide. It is a bit more dicey in a (assumed) permanent disorder like dementia caused by Alzheimer's.

On the otherside, "competence" is a legal term referring to the ability of a person to make decisions about his or her affairs. Legally, an adult patient remains competent until a court says otherwise.

NPR did a big thing on this the other day . They hauled the man out of the room, the woman went wild kicking and striking the staff trying to get to him. She was calling him by her husbands name. Ended up that the DON and some other person in leadership were fired. The man was banished and his family had to travel 2 hrs to visit him. They countered that with stories from a place in New York that trained staff to deal with intimacy as a natural part of life and followed that with the little factoid that Sandra Day O'Connor's hubby had a relationship with another woman in his NH. Fascinating piece on the ethics, morals, etc.

[WisconsinWildcard]

Re: Just what IS "marriage" anyway?

NPR did a big thing on this the other day . They hauled the man out of the room, the woman went wild kicking and striking the staff trying to get to him. She was calling him by her husbands name. Ended up that the DON and some other person in leadership were fired. The man was banished and his family had to travel 2 hrs to visit him. They countered that with stories from a place in New York that trained staff to deal with intimacy as a natural part of life and followed that with the little factoid that Sandra Day O'Connor's hubby had a relationship with another woman in his NH. Fascinating piece on the ethics, morals, etc.

Must spread rep....

Medical ethics was one of my favorite classes in medical school. Also the class I received the best grade in (not sure if that is a good thing or not )

Always an interesting topic. Thanks for the additional story!

[Priceless]

Re: Just what IS "marriage" anyway?

Ended up that the DON and some other person in leadership were fired.

They made him an offer he couldn't refuse?

[joecct]

Re: Just what IS "marriage" anyway?

Letting TEH GAYS!! marry will lead to man on box turtle sex! And who knows what else! Just look what happened when we allowed whites and blacks to marry!

We got Obama?

[Priceless]

Re: Just what IS "marriage" anyway?

We got Obama?

That's a myth. Everyone knows he was manufactured in a factory in Kenya.

[leswp1]

Re: Just what IS "marriage" anyway?

Must spread rep....

Medical ethics was one of my favorite classes in medical school. Also the class I received the best grade in (not sure if that is a good thing or not )

Always an interesting topic. Thanks for the additional story!

I love it too. Fascinating. People like to give simple answers without thinking through all the ramifications. Medicine is full of dilemmas

[XYZ]

Re: Just what IS "marriage" anyway?

I wouldn't call it a slippery slope. I'd call it consistency. But, probably not a bad idea to bet against consistency.

We have abundance of laws (and rightfully so, obviously) that do not permit adults to engage in sexual activities with minors, be it of hetero or homosexual nature. What about the legalization (or lack thereof) of gay marriage in a given jurisdiction changes the consistency of those laws?

[Bob Gray]

Re: Just what IS "marriage" anyway?

We have abundance of laws (and rightfully so, obviously) that do not permit adults to engage in sexual activities with minors, be it of hetero or homosexual nature. What about the legalization (or lack thereof) of gay marriage in a given jurisdiction changes the consistency of those laws?

People shouldn't be denied rights. Or so I've heard about a million times. Of course what a right is, is a key question. The whole spin that gay marriage is a civil right, while not very well founded, was a brilliant PR move that is paying major dividends.

[Gurtholfin]

Re: Just what IS "marriage" anyway?

People shouldn't be denied rights. Or so I've heard about a million times. Of course what a right is, is a key question. The whole spin that gay marriage is a civil right, while not very well founded, was a brilliant PR move that is paying major dividends.

People don't have the right to commit crimes. Your premise that this would get any support is silly.

It's the typical "If a man can marry a man, what's next? A man can marry a dog?" argument.

[Bob Gray]

Re: Just what IS "marriage" anyway?

People don't have the right to commit crimes. Your premise that this would get any support is silly.

It's the typical "If a man can marry a man, what's next? A man can marry a dog?" argument.

Uh, yah, lots of people have seriously wanted to marry a dog. The logical next step would be something like legalized polygamy, then we'd see where it goes from there. But, the logic of not being able to draw an "arbitrary" line has to play out to its logical conclusion. Particularly in the case of polygamy, assuming it only involves consenting adults.

[FlagDUDE08]

Re: Just what IS "marriage" anyway?

People don't have the right to commit crimes. Your premise that this would get any support is silly.

It's the typical "If a man can marry a man, what's next? A man can marry a dog?" argument.

Actually, a woman has married a roller coaster. I put a link to it a while back.