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Just what IS "marriage" anyway?

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  • Re: Just what IS "marriage" anyway?

    Originally posted by joecct View Post
    No.

    I think that this administration is anti religion and will use any means possible to push its agenda down the non cooperating religions' throats.
    Anti-religion? I thought he was a Muslin intent on bring Sharia Law to America. Incidentally, what does Sharia Law say about homosexuals and their right to marry (or breathe)?

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    • Re: Just what IS "marriage" anyway?

      Originally posted by joecct View Post
      No.

      I think that this administration is anti religion and will use any means possible to push its agenda down the non cooperating religions' throats.
      That's a pretty pro-religion statement for a guy who is supposedly anti-religion....
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      • Re: Just what IS "marriage" anyway?

        Originally posted by joecct View Post
        Do you believe this?
        sounds like a perfectly appropriate comment from the Panderer-in-Chief, doncha think?
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        • Re: Just what IS "marriage" anyway?

          Originally posted by MinnesotaNorthStar View Post
          That's a pretty pro-religion statement for a guy who is supposedly anti-religion....
          Actions speak louder than words.
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          • Re: Just what IS "marriage" anyway?

            Originally posted by joecct View Post
            No.

            I think that this administration is anti religion and will use any means possible to push its agenda down the non cooperating religions' throats.
            Curious how this pushes an agenda down a religion's throat. It doesn't require any religion to participate or condone it. It does not require any religion to abide by another religion's belief that marriage should not occur. What does it have to do with religion?

            The founding father's wanted church and state separate. This is keeping it separate. I see it as religious neutral and takes religion out of the legal marriage. Church has no business dictating requirements for marriage. Which church do you decide is dominant? Should it be the Catholic version, the Hindu version, the Westboro Baptist 'Church' version, Islamic, Mormon, ELCA, Missouri Synod? My church does not think same sex marriage is wrong. Should we use only my Church's belief system? The answer is it should be up to the church to practice what it believes within it's walls. The secular world is on a different plane and should not need to abide by religious beliefs.

            Many people (heterosexuals) never get married in a religious ceremony. Their marriage is legal. Why should this be different. When my in-laws got married in France they had it right. They go to the town hall and do the civil thing, process down the village street to the church and get married in the religious ceremony.

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            • Re: Just what IS "marriage" anyway?

              Originally posted by joecct View Post
              No.

              I think that this administration is anti religion and will use any means possible to push its agenda down the non cooperating religions' throats.

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              • Originally posted by joecct View Post
                No.

                I think that this administration is anti religion and will use any means possible to push its agenda down the non cooperating religions' throats.
                This is a bit.

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                • Re: Just what IS "marriage" anyway?

                  How the SCOTUS ruling affects you

                  If You Are a Heterosexual Who Hopes to Eventually Marry:
                  This decision does not affect you in any way.

                  If You Are a Member of a Church That Performs Wedding Ceremonies but That Does Not Believe in Gay Marriage:
                  This decision does not affect you in any way.

                  If You Are a Religious Official Who Performs Wedding Ceremonies but Who Thinks Gay Marriage Is Wrong:
                  This decision does not affect you in any way.

                  If You Are an Individual Who Believes Gay Marriage or Homosexuality in General Is Wrong for Religious Reasons, and Wish to Continue Expressing Those Beliefs:
                  This decision does not affect you in any way.

                  If You Are an Individual Who Believes Gay Marriage or Homosexuality in General Is Wrong for Non-Religious Reasons, and Wish to Continue Expressing Those Beliefs:
                  This decision does not affect you in any way.

                  If You Are a Heterosexual Who Fears This Decision Adversely Affects Your Marriage or the Concept of Marriage in General:
                  This decision does not affect you in any way.

                  If You Are a Heterosexual Who Fears This Decision Negatively Affects You in Some Way:
                  This decision does not affect you in any way.

                  If You Are a Heterosexual Who Suffers Anger or Anxiety at the Thought of Gay Couples Getting Married as an Abstract Concept, and Believes the Only Cure Is to Legally Prevent Gay Marriage:
                  This decision will cause you some degree of anger or anxiety. Otherwise, this decision does not affect you in any way.

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                  • Re: Just what IS "marriage" anyway?

                    Originally posted by leswp1 View Post
                    Curious how this pushes an agenda down a religion's throat. It doesn't require any religion to participate or condone it. It does not require any religion to abide by another religion's belief that marriage should not occur. What does it have to do with religion?

                    The founding father's wanted church and state separate. This is keeping it separate. I see it as religious neutral and takes religion out of the legal marriage. Church has no business dictating requirements for marriage. Which church do you decide is dominant? Should it be the Catholic version, the Hindu version, the Westboro Baptist 'Church' version, Islamic, Mormon, ELCA, Missouri Synod? My church does not think same sex marriage is wrong. Should we use only my Church's belief system? The answer is it should be up to the church to practice what it believes within it's walls. The secular world is on a different plane and should not need to abide by religious beliefs.

                    Many people (heterosexuals) never get married in a religious ceremony. Their marriage is legal. Why should this be different. When my in-laws got married in France they had it right. They go to the town hall and do the civil thing, process down the village street to the church and get married in the religious ceremony.
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                    • Re: Just what IS "marriage" anyway?

                      Originally posted by Priceless View Post
                      Instructions unclear, accidentally married a cat.
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                      • Re: Just what IS "marriage" anyway?

                        You guys can all be sarcastic but I really am curious why he thinks that. There seem to be a lot of people who feel this threatens their religion and I don't find it logical. I would like someone who feels that way to explain to me why.

                        I can understand the people who think that we should live by their particular belief system being upset. This takes away the legal constraints to people doing what they believe is wrong (according to their religion). I don't understand how it is anti-religion. It does not impede a particular religion from practicing their belief system. The rule that was overturned forced people to abide by a belief that did not encompass everyone's beliefs. There are many churches that recognize same sex marriage and they were not able to practice their beliefs. (Please don't argue that this means we can marry animals, plants or minerals. Humans are humans whatever their gender).
                        Last edited by leswp1; 06-27-2013, 06:39 AM.

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                        • Re: Just what IS "marriage" anyway?

                          Originally posted by leswp1 View Post
                          You guys can all be sarcastic but I really am curious why he thinks that. There seem to be a lot of people who feel this threatens their religion and I don't find it logical. I would like someone who feels that way to explain to me why.
                          I can understand the people who think that we should live by their particular belief system being upset. This takes away the legal constraints to people doing what they believe is wrong (according to their religion). I don't understand how it is anti-religion. It does not impede a particular religion from practicing their belief system. The rule that was overturned forced people to abide by a belief that did not encompass everyone's beliefs. There are many churches that recognize same sex marriage and they were not able to practice their beliefs. (Please don't argue that this means we can marry animals, plants or minerals. Humans are humans whatever their gender).
                          I think some folks believe people that want to get married in churches that do not believe in gay marriages will use the courts to get their marriage in that church. Simple as that.
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                          • Re: Just what IS "marriage" anyway?

                            Originally posted by walrus View Post
                            I think some folks believe people that want to get married in churches that do not believe in gay marriages will use the courts to get their marriage in that church. Simple as that.
                            Has anyone ever been able to force a church to do a religious rite against their religion? (serious question) I thought they can be totally discriminatory about who they admit, who performs rites, who they exclude etc. Example- religious schools- they can exclude everyone they want. Or better example- Westboro Baptist "church" (using term church with tongue in cheek).

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                            • Originally posted by leswp1 View Post
                              Has anyone ever been able to force a church to do a religious rite against their religion? (serious question
                              No. The closest example i can think of is something like a child of a Jehovah's witness receiving an involuntary blood transfusion against the parent's religious convictions. Nothing says churches have to wed a gay couple anymore than they have to wed an atheist couple.

                              What they're really afraid of is having to provide services to gay people in a non-religious context. Ie, you're a devout evangelical baker who makes the best wedding cakes in town. A gay couple asks you to make a wedding cake for them, but you don't want to serve them because you're a bigot err because of your religious convictions. That's a wholly different argument dealing with anti-discrimination laws, though, and has nothing to do with gay marriage and DOMA itself.

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                              • Re: Just what IS "marriage" anyway?

                                Originally posted by leswp1 View Post
                                Curious how this pushes an agenda down a religion's throat. It doesn't require any religion to participate or condone it. It does not require any religion to abide by another religion's belief that marriage should not occur. What does it have to do with religion?

                                The founding father's wanted church and state separate. This is keeping it separate. I see it as religious neutral and takes religion out of the legal marriage. Church has no business dictating requirements for marriage. Which church do you decide is dominant? Should it be the Catholic version, the Hindu version, the Westboro Baptist 'Church' version, Islamic, Mormon, ELCA, Missouri Synod? My church does not think same sex marriage is wrong. Should we use only my Church's belief system? The answer is it should be up to the church to practice what it believes within it's walls. The secular world is on a different plane and should not need to abide by religious beliefs.

                                Many people (heterosexuals) never get married in a religious ceremony. Their marriage is legal. Why should this be different. When my in-laws got married in France they had it right. They go to the town hall and do the civil thing, process down the village street to the church and get married in the religious ceremony.
                                It falls under the same pretense of how the huff-and-puffer ilk whine about how a private establishment refuses the right to service, and the person refused coincidentally happens to be of a specific sexual orientation. We had this argument about ten pages ago. Say that a priest is the only person in town who performs marriages, and does so under a religious pretense. The religion happens to forbid same-sex marriages. Are you going to force that minister to go against the church because of this law?

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