The PPACA - Implementation Phase I

[unofan]

I pay for those services directly. You don't pay for my steaks of beers.

Then you're complaining about work ethic and carrying one's own weight, not self reliance. And good luck convincing me that the penalty for laziness should be death.

[Handyman]

Re: The PPACA - Implementation Phase I

I think you nailed it! Easy download and e-mail from the Drudge site or something like that.

I bet it was that jerk Jimmy Carter...sounds right up his alley

[geezer]

Re: The PPACA - Implementation Phase I

I think you nailed it! Easy download and e-mail from the Drudge site or something like that.

You're still a pathetic liar. These are people I know personally, they constitute 2/3 of a small "Controls Engineering" company they set up to install heating/cooling controls. One of them is the owner and the other one tells the owner what to do.
Please don't make stupid accusations you can't back up just because you're unwilling to see the forest for the trees:
Unfortunately, while it's easy to cherrypick cases where some single healthy person who previously wanted only catastrophic coverage is getting more thorough coverage at a reasonable rate, those cases are proving to be the exception when you look at the big picture of previously decent family coverage going by the wayside and people being threatened with fines because they can't afford the supposedly "better" (but far more expensive) plans now on offer that offer worse coverage. It's a complete disaster for most families.

[Handyman]

Re: The PPACA - Implementation Phase I

So it is ok for you to cherry pick cases but not him? When the media shows someone get screwed it is a-ok but when the stories are debunked then it is all of a sudden the exception and not the rule?

Tell me why you are so trustworthy and he is the liar or I am gonna start to believe you actually think Jimmy Carter is the scum of the Earth

[unofan]

You're still a pathetic liar. These are people I know personally, they constitute 2/3 of a small "Controls Engineering" company they set up to install heating/cooling controls. One of them is the owner and the other one tells the owner what to do.
Please don't make stupid accusations you can't back up just because you're unwilling to see the forest for the trees:
Unfortunately, while it's easy to cherrypick cases where some single healthy person who previously wanted only catastrophic coverage is getting more thorough coverage at a reasonable rate, those cases are proving to be the exception when you look at the big picture of previously decent family coverage going by the wayside and people being threatened with fines because they can't afford the supposedly "better" (but far more expensive) plans now on offer that offer worse coverage. It's a complete disaster for most families.

A company of three is not covered by the ACA. So please explain to me how this is the ACA's fault. Especially if none of these supposedly bright engineers has looked for better options on the exchanges yet.

Edit: I also love how you automatically believe these two guys represent "most families." Because the plural of anecdotes you agree with is data, apparently.

[geezer]

Re: The PPACA - Implementation Phase I

A company of three is not covered by the ACA. So please explain to me how this is the ACA's fault.

If you don't think these new taxes are being spread around to the medical consumers who "have the means" I have a lovely bridge to sell you. Nobody is escaping the fallout from all these new taxes and agents to support. The societal cost is astronomical. You could say, I'm not selling any pacemakers so it doesn't affect me! It's only those EEEEEEVIL business owners! But guess what? Those costs are guaranteed to trickle down. Obamacare is lose-lose-lose for everyone in concept, and especially in the incompetent and wasteful administration of it.
I'm not opposed in the least to government-led health care insurance reform. I could even go for a streamlined single payer system. But this mess is all cost, no benefit. And nobody is getting a free lunch. It'll hit you indirectly in one way or another.

[geezer]

Re: The PPACA - Implementation Phase I

So it is ok for you to cherry pick cases but not him? When the media shows someone get screwed it is a-ok but when the stories are debunked then it is all of a sudden the exception and not the rule?

Tell me why you are so trustworthy and he is the liar or I am gonna start to believe you actually think Jimmy Carter is the scum of the Earth

Obviously I don't have access to every case, we're all going by what we have been exposed to. The point is that it's disingenuous at best to discredit everything you see that doesn't fit your preconceived template that since this came from someone wearing a (D), it's automatically going to lead to a new paradise for the planet where nobody will have to pay for anything. No. There will be another side to that story, and it will benefit you to listen to that other side.

Let's just say I'm skeptical of anyone who says "don't worry about a thing, if you go along with the program everything will be taken care of for you." My inclination is to say, wait a second, let's talk this over before we all jump off that cliff.

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: The PPACA - Implementation Phase I

Seems to me that anyone or any company that thinks they're getting screwed out to go out and shop. That's the American way and I bet 99.9% of the time they find something they like.

[unofan]

If you don't think these new taxes are being spread around to the medical consumers who "have the means" I have a lovely bridge to sell you. Nobody is escaping the fallout from all these new taxes and agents to support. The societal cost is astronomical. You could say, I'm not selling any pacemakers so it doesn't affect me! It's only those EEEEEEVIL business owners! But guess what? Those costs are guaranteed to trickle down. Obamacare is lose-lose-lose for everyone in concept, and especially in the incompetent and wasteful administration of it.
I'm not opposed in the least to government-led health care insurance reform. I could even go for a streamlined single payer system. But this mess is all cost, no benefit. And nobody is getting a free lunch. It'll hit you indirectly in one way or another.

That's not your original argument. You were complaining about a small business's health care premiums doubling. How was that caused by the ACA when the ACA doesn't cover employers of less than 40 workers? Why haven't your friends looked into better options?

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: The PPACA - Implementation Phase I

Also seems to me that if your rates are being jacked up it's probably your insurance company trying to cash in on Obamacare and all the hysteria. After all, we left the insurance companies in charge.

[Rover]

Re: The PPACA - Implementation Phase I

That's not your original argument. You were complaining about a small business's health care premiums doubling. How was that caused by the ACA when the ACA doesn't cover employers of less than 40 workers? Why haven't your friends looked into better options?

He'll get back to you as soon as Drudge gets back to him!

While CNBC is a cheerleader of anti-ACA coverage, they did have a good article about how some employers are blaming 5-7% increases in premiums on Obamacare.....even though that's been the norm for the last decade! Pretty funny.

[joecct]

Re: The PPACA - Implementation Phase I

The success / failure of PPACA will be to get the healthy young people to sign up to finance the health care cost of the sick / elderly / infirm. If the healthy do not sign up, PPACA will fiscally collapse.

Or, to put it in a different way, if I was offering tornado insurance, and only people in Oklahoma signed up, there is a good possibility I'd go bankrupt. I need people in Alaska and Hawaii to sign up to offset the costs. But, if there are little or no tornadoes in Alaska and Hawaii, why should the good folks of the 49th and 50th states sign up for tornado insurance?

[geezer]

Re: The PPACA - Implementation Phase I

That's not your original argument. You were complaining about a small business's health care premiums doubling. How was that caused by the ACA when the ACA doesn't cover employers of less than 40 workers? Why haven't your friends looked into better options?

But it is. My point is that Obamacare has NOT created the "People's Paradise" it was claimed to. Dramatic across the board tax increases are in fact a result of new costs being tacked on to every insured, whether they are in the exchange or not. Whether they were "supposed" to be affected or not. That's exactly my original argument, is that these are the people that were supposed to be unaffected, yet are being affected in a huge way by the new costs associated with providing health insurance. It doesn't matter if you're in the exchange or not, there's still no free lunch. Everyone has to pay the costs in one way or another.
As for finding a better system of insurance: stay tuned, we're in the early stages of digging out from under this nightmare.
Point is, it doesn't matter if you're self-employed, in a big company that's controlled directly by the government, or in a tiny pseudo-independent company, you're going to be affected in a negative way by the new costs of health care.

In other words, the anecdotal example I provided is an example of the "unintended consequences" that always seem to occur when we are told "don't worry, we'll take care of everything for you." It pays to look behind the curtain .

[geezer]

Re: The PPACA - Implementation Phase I

Seems to me that anyone or any company that thinks they're getting screwed out to go out and shop. That's the American way and I bet 99.9% of the time they find something they like.

See how easy that was to solve this so-called "problem" of insufficient care options? It's a crying shame when common sense is against the law.

[Rover]

Re: The PPACA - Implementation Phase I

My point is that Obamacare has NOT created the "People's Paradise" it was claimed to.

If you'd be so kind as to post a link to the promise of a "People's Paradise" I'd be appreciative. However, I won't hold my breath.