The PPACA - Implementation Phase I

[St. Clown]

Re: The PPACA - Implementation Phase I

So we only pay taxes for what we personally use? Awesome! I assume the Army will deliver the tank they've been holding for me.

You're twisting everything I just said. Scooby stated that he's paid for his services through taxes paid. That's simply not the case, he's being subsidized by the government, the same way most of us are. I'm simply pointing it out as a lot of people wrongly believe, like Scooby, that they're free and clear of all government subsidies.

[jerphisch]

Re: The PPACA - Implementation Phase I

wow, can you provide any evidence to support this assertion? You've never heard of the term "experience rated?" are you honestly going to try to maintain that a pool of 30-year old construction workers are charged the same rate as a pool of 30-year old office workers, despite the greater risk of injury for the former vs the latter?


Based on your quote, you also are saying that people who live in New York City have the same premium rates as people who live in Cheyenne, Wyoming? even though hospitals and doctors in the former are considerably more expensive than they are in the latter? I mean, part of a risk profile are costs incurred, yet if employer-provided insurance is not priced based on risk profile, why then does employer-sponsored insurance have higher premiums in locations where medical expenses are higher?


It sounds like you don't have much actual practical experience in health insurance, just a lot of opinions about how you think it operates.

I'm not sure what reality you live in, but it sounds like a neat place. I'd love to see examples of companies that form a neat and tidy pool of 30 year old construction workers or office workers. Of course, that place doesnt exist, since a construction company still has office staff that may be paying rates that are more geared to construction workers, and both groups of those workers will undoubtedly range in age over different risk groups. And that is my point, you are complaining that young people get screwed by Obamacare, which is no different than the current system. Young people already get screwed when they work with old people, office workers get screwed when they work in a construction field etc. Go ahead and explain to me now how I am wrong about something else I never said rather than trying to explain your initial position of young people get screwed by Obamacare.

[Old Pio]

Re: The PPACA - Implementation Phase I

You're twisting everything I just said. Scooby stated that he's paid for his services through taxes paid. That's simply not the case, he's being subsidized by the government, the same way most of us are. I'm simply pointing it out as a lot of people wrongly believe, like Scooby, that they're free and clear of all government subsidies.

I seem to recall that during the "Veetnam" war, Joan Baez thought it would be appropriate for her to withhold from her payment to the IRS, that portion which supported DOD. Ultimately, someone from the IRS showed her the menus at Leavenworth, and she relented. Or something.

[Old Pio]

Re: The PPACA - Implementation Phase I

Yeah, no kidding. Sorry everyone I guess I'm a ****ing freeloader. Where the **** is my food stamps etc? I should be getting as much as everyone else. In fact I want my unemployment insurance even though I'm working.

God this conversation is stupid.

Yes, and as usual you're in it up to your lips. Quelle surprise.

[FreshFish]

Re: The PPACA - Implementation Phase I

Coincidence?

If you have any questions about ObamaCare, prepare to get screwed.

The toll-free number for the government’s help line contains the surprising secret insult: F–KYO.

It’s visible when using an alpha-numeric keypad to dial 1-800-318-2596. Just check the last seven digits (except for the number 1, which has no corresponding letter).

[St. Clown]

Re: The PPACA - Implementation Phase I

Yeah, no kidding. Sorry everyone I guess I'm a ****ing freeloader. Where the **** is my food stamps etc? I should be getting as much as everyone else. In fact I want my unemployment insurance even though I'm working.

God this conversation is stupid.

Why is that? Is it because you're unaware of just how much the government does and it's challenging you to open your arms?


Even though I don't agree with him on much, at least unofan will have a real conversation about things and not simply pout.

[Priceless]

Re: The PPACA - Implementation Phase I

Coincidence?

No. It was done intentionally to see who would be childish enough to see it. Congratulations.

[unofan]

Coincidence?

Funny how you have time to post tripe like that but have no response after being schooled in statutory interpretation.

So much for wanting to engage in meaningful discussion.

[FreshFish]

Re: The PPACA - Implementation Phase I

since a construction company still has office staff that may be paying rates that are more geared to construction workers

ah, good, so here at least we do tacitly agree: generally, one very significant component health insurance rates is the prospective risk of the pool of covered insureds. You seem to acknowledge that health insurance premiums in an employer-sponsored plan will indeed vary in part based on the risk profile of the employees.

you are complaining that young people get screwed by Obamacare.

No, I'm not. That's the second or third time now that you've attributed a moral component to my comments, which have been limited in this context solely to practical concerns. I never used the term "screwed." To say that young people are over-paying relative to their risk profile is merely a statement of fact, one which you seem to tacitly acknowledge as well. Your emotion-laden terms seem to indicate that you have inferred that I somehow think that PPACA has deliberately set out to do young people a disservice, and that is just not correct.

Let's walk together for a moment, to translate the conversation into practical terms without value judgments. You are saying that one way to set insurance rates is to have one pool of people from age 18 through 64 (let's assume children under 18 are already covered in states' CHIPs).

No argument here. One could indeed set rates based on that risk pool.

I might reply that it seems preferable to me to have two sets of rates, one for smokers and one for non-smokers. Smokers have far higher risks of cancer and lung disease than non-smokers, and smoking is a voluntary choice. Having dual rates in practice would have an ancillary benefit of providing another financial incentive for smokers to quit, thereby reducing their usage of the healthcare system, reducing costs for everyone. I just don't think it is "fair" to non-smokers to pay extra to cover the extra costs of treatment that smokers will incur. Now, if we do NOT have separate rates for smokers and non-smokers, would you say that non-smokers are "getting screwed"? or would you merely note that smokers are paying more than their risk profile would indicate, so that smokers can thereby pay less than their risk profile would indicate?

There are two things to note (facts only) about the way PPACA uses one risk pool for people 18 - 64:
1) they give people the choice to opt out. This makes pricing far more unstable and volatile. Health insurance pricing generally occurs one year in arrears (or a rolling average of 3 or 5 prior years). This year's rates are based on anticipated experience, and much of that anticipated experience is an extrapolation from existing experience, perhaps adjusted or tweaked by the pricing actuaries. However, in the case of PPACA, it's all brand new: there is no prior experience from which to extrapolate. Giving people the choice to opt out adds another huge component of uncertainty and volatility to the situation.
2) the administration has been all over the news telling people how important it is to get young people to sign up. It has been the administration, not me, telling people they need lots of younger participants to enroll so that their premiums will help cover expenses expected to be incurred by older people that exceed premiums expected to be paid by older people. This is all by their design, it is all one risk pool, remember? It is very much analogous to the smoker / non-smoker situation.


I'm saying this is a very poor design. Smoker / non-smoker rate differential and age banding would have been a much, much better implementation.

[FreshFish]

Re: The PPACA - Implementation Phase I

My impression of the people who wrote PPACA is a group of ideologically motivated young who meant well and who were quite naive and inexperienced and didn't even know how much they didn't know. They acted as if they knew all that was needed to be known, yet they were completely oblivious to the existence of mini-med programs (hence the 1,800 waivers or whatever in the first year).

I am reminded of Mark Twain's observation, which I paraphrase slightly: "when I was 16, my father was one of the most ignorant beings on the planet. by the time I turned 24, I was amazed at how much wisdom the old man picked up over the last 8 years." The drafters of PPACA were akin to those 16 year olds, but they didn't even allow any parents in the room.

Again, no malice, no "screwing" just way too many "oops, I didn't know that" moments.

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: The PPACA - Implementation Phase I

My impression of the people who wrote PPACA is a group of ideologically motivated young who meant well and who were quite naive and inexperienced and didn't even know how much they didn't know. They acted as if they knew all that was needed to be known, yet they were completely oblivious to the existence of mini-med programs (hence the 1,800 waivers or whatever in the first year).

I am reminded of Mark Twain's observation, which I paraphrase slightly: "when I was 16, my father was one of the most ignorant beings on the planet. by the time I turned 24, I was amazed at how much wisdom the old man picked up over the last 8 years." The drafters of PPACA were akin to those 16 year olds, but they didn't even allow any parents in the room.

Again, no malice, no "screwing" just way too many "oops, I didn't know that" moments.

All I know is I'm on the public dole. So, I don't really care.

[Priceless]

All I know is I'm on the public dole. So, I don't really care.

Look on the bright side...at least you are a productive member of society. All I am is a leech and everyone would be better off if I stopped consuming precious oxygen.

[Rover]

My impression of the people who wrote PPACA is a group of ideologically motivated young who meant well and who were quite naive and inexperienced and didn't even know how much they didn't know. They acted as if they knew all that was needed to be known, yet they were completely oblivious to the existence of mini-med programs (hence the 1,800 waivers or whatever in the first year).

I am reminded of Mark Twain's observation, which I paraphrase slightly: "when I was 16, my father was one of the most ignorant beings on the planet. by the time I turned 24, I was amazed at how much wisdom the old man picked up over the last 8 years." The drafters of PPACA were akin to those 16 year olds, but they didn't even allow any parents in the room.

Again, no malice, no "screwing" just way too many "oops, I didn't know that" moments.

Stupid commentary on several levels. Your impressions are often inaccurate so its safe to assume this one is to. As anybody associated with the PPACA often stated in public for anybody with at least one working ear, is that the law could always be tweaked upon its passing as situations came up. Indeed, most legislation does over time. Now tweaking does not equal repeal or we'll force a debt default. The major failing of The Boner and the knuckledragger caucus was not playing ball and getting some of what they wanted in there. Now they have zero credibility and trust as the public at large believes the primary motive of the party is to make things difficult for the Prez. This is coupled with unprecedented unpopularity of the GOP and the Congress. There's a reason for that, which isn't everybody loves Obamacare. The reason is that the public sees Republicans as a bunch of petty old whiners who are offering no real solutions to anything.

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: The PPACA - Implementation Phase I

Look on the bright side...at least you are a productive member of society. All I am is a leech and everyone would be better off if I stopped consuming precious oxygen.

I think "Productive Member of Society" is a relative term. Since I'm on the dole I'm just as bad as you are. Maybe more cause my ceiling should be higher.

[aparch]

Coincidence?

I can't find the link on my phone but I read that it used to be a # for social security years ago, and since it was still part of the Gov't numbers, they were assigned it.