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The PPACA - Implementation Phase I

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  • Re: The PPACA - Implementation Phase I

    Not sure how this plays into the current discussion-but my wife just received a notice from her health insurer-Horizon BS BC of NJ-announcing her new monthly rate to start October 2013. Although every year has had an increase, this notice indicates that to maintain her current policy, the increase amounts to 19.975%. Truly absurd when we are being told that inflation is well in check and that we should expect the Social Security COLA increase to be around 1.4% starting in January.
    Take the shortest distance to the puck and arrive in ill humor

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    • Re: The PPACA - Implementation Phase I

      Originally posted by Priceless View Post
      the cost for the pizza ingredients has skyrocketed because of the massive drought in the heartland.
      there was an interesting story about this on NPR a couple weeks ago. People fret about it when the price of corn (for example) swings around, but the guy they had on pointed out that even in a commodity product that's pretty much pure corn, like a $4 box of corn flakes, the cost of the corn in there is less than a dime. Changes in the price of crops have virtually no affect on the prices of the food we buy in the store. Gas and other things (electricity, labor, packaging, marketing etc) are much bigger factors than the per bushel crop prices. I know, off the subject. Health care probably doesn't register either.
      Huskies are very intelligent and trainable. Huskies make an excellent jogging companion, as long as it is not too hot. Grooming is minimal; bathing is normally unnecessary.
      USCHO Fantasy Baseball Champion 2011 2013 2015

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      • Re: The PPACA - Implementation Phase I

        Originally posted by geezer View Post
        there was an interesting story about this on NPR a couple weeks ago. People fret about it when the price of corn (for example) swings around, but the guy they had on pointed out that even in a commodity product that's pretty much pure corn, like a $4 box of corn flakes, the cost of the corn in there is less than a dime. Changes in the price of crops have virtually no affect on the prices of the food we buy in the store. Gas and other things (electricity, labor, packaging, marketing etc) are much bigger factors than the per bushel crop prices. I know, off the subject. Health care probably doesn't register either.
        Except that when people say "cost of labor" they're including all of the costs of hiring a worker - including health care. Health care is a non-trivial component of labor, which is a non-trivial component of overall cost.

        I know, I know - health care shouldn't be tied to employment, blah, blah, blah. I can agree with that, even while recognizing that rising health care costs do, in fact, affect the prices that we pay for everything from hamburgers to SUVs. If we had single-payer, then prices would be lower, but we'd pay more taxes - would we really have more buying power? Unless/until the underlying cost of care is changed, we're just rearranging deck chairs on the Titanic.
        If you don't change the world today, how can it be any better tomorrow?

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        • Re: The PPACA - Implementation Phase I

          Your children become forced to get vaccinations, and the doctors screw up. What happens? The parents are charged with murder. http://www.naturalnews.com/041781_va...e_parents.html

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          • Re: The PPACA - Implementation Phase I

            Originally posted by FlagDUDE08 View Post
            Your children become forced to get vaccinations, and the doctors screw up. What happens? The parents are charged with murder. http://www.naturalnews.com/041781_va...e_parents.html
            Wow, it's amazing what side effects vaccines can have. I never knew that they could cause "multiple fractures of the long bones." I'm glad you've shared this valuable, informative, well-documented story with us.
            If you don't change the world today, how can it be any better tomorrow?

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            • Re: The PPACA - Implementation Phase I

              Originally posted by FlagDUDE08 View Post
              Your children become forced to get vaccinations, and the doctors screw up. What happens? The parents are charged with murder. http://www.naturalnews.com/041781_va...e_parents.html
              What a one-sided, steaming bag of poo that article is. The "sources" you cite in your concern trolling are just becoming laughable at this point - a website that runs ads pushing colloidal silver and various other garbage "supplements" is not a medical authority.

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              • Re: The PPACA - Implementation Phase I

                Ha, and when I clicked over to Facebook, the first post I saw was from a doctor friend of mine linking this article.

                Interestingly, I used to live very close to this church - even kept my sailboat on Eagle Mountain Lake.
                If you don't change the world today, how can it be any better tomorrow?

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                • Re: The PPACA - Implementation Phase I

                  Originally posted by LynahFan View Post
                  Except that when people say "cost of labor" they're including all of the costs of hiring a worker - including health care. Health care is a non-trivial component of labor, which is a non-trivial component of overall cost.

                  I know, I know - health care shouldn't be tied to employment, blah, blah, blah. I can agree with that, even while recognizing that rising health care costs do, in fact, affect the prices that we pay for everything from hamburgers to SUVs. If we had single-payer, then prices would be lower, but we'd pay more taxes - would we really have more buying power? Unless/until the underlying cost of care is changed, we're just rearranging deck chairs on the Titanic.
                  There was a report on Chris Hayes last night that showed how 6 bags of salt water in a hospital cost the insurance company paying the bill over 500 dollars. That's what's wrong with Health Care. Countries that have single payer do not allow that to happen. Consumers that spend all their time at Wal-Mart would never pay 500 dollars for 6 bags of salt water. Yet, with our employer based, insurance company based health care system this is the norm.

                  http://video.msnbc.msn.com/all-in-/52851971#52851971

                  There's the video for anyone that wants to see it.
                  **NOTE: The misleading post above was brought to you by Reynold's Wrap and American Steeples, makers of Crosses.

                  Originally Posted by dropthatpuck-Scooby's a lost cause.
                  Originally Posted by First Time, Long Time-Always knew you were nothing but a troll.

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                  • Re: The PPACA - Implementation Phase I

                    Originally posted by ScoobyDoo View Post
                    There was a report on Chris Hayes last night that showed how 6 bags of salt water in a hospital cost the insurance company paying the bill over 500 dollars. That's what's wrong with Health Care. Countries that have single payer do not allow that to happen. Consumers that spend all their time at Wal-Mart would never pay 500 dollars for 6 bags of salt water. Yet, with our employer based, insurance company based health care system this is the norm.

                    http://video.msnbc.msn.com/all-in-/52851971#52851971

                    There's the video for anyone that wants to see it.
                    What you described happens in all third-party payer systems when the person receiving benefits has no financial incentive to mind the prices.

                    Do you really expect things to get better with a single payer system? People will continue with the same practices, get their hands slapped by the government, and then price controls will come in. What happens when a government sets price controls? Think back to the 70's - hell, look at cereal boxes today. In an effort to handle price restrictions (in the case of the cereal boxes it was the unwillingness of consumers to pay higher prices during the Great Recession), providers of goods would keep the same prices, but the quantity of goods received for the given price would decrease. In the case of boxed cereals, if you read the net weight value on the box, they're down about 10% from about ten years ago, yet the prices remained relatively flat.

                    A similar situation will happen with the single payer system, where you simply will not receive as much health care as you want because there aren't the resources to provide it. It's a time tested axiom in economics, people take as much of a "free" good or service as they can until they're satisfied or restricted by an outside force. the same will happen in a single payer healthcare system. Those being responsible will suffer for it.
                    "The party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command." George Orwell, 1984

                    "One does not simply walk into Mordor. Its Black Gates are guarded by more than just Orcs. There is evil there that does not sleep, and the Great Eye is ever watchful. It is a barren wasteland, riddled with fire and ash and dust, the very air you breathe is a poisonous fume." Boromir

                    "Good news! We have a delivery." Professor Farnsworth

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                    • Re: The PPACA - Implementation Phase I

                      Originally posted by ScoobyDoo View Post
                      There was a report on Chris Hayes last night that showed how 6 bags of salt water in a hospital cost the insurance company paying the bill over 500 dollars. That's what's wrong with Health Care. Countries that have single payer do not allow that to happen. Consumers that spend all their time at Wal-Mart would never pay 500 dollars for 6 bags of salt water. Yet, with our employer based, insurance company based health care system this is the norm.

                      http://video.msnbc.msn.com/all-in-/52851971#52851971

                      There's the video for anyone that wants to see it.
                      Move to Vermont, and let those of us living in the other 49 states live in peace.

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                      • Re: The PPACA - Implementation Phase I

                        Originally posted by St. Clown View Post
                        What you described happens in all third-party payer systems when the person receiving benefits has no financial incentive to mind the prices.
                        I agree with that 100%. And if single payer is bad I am willing to go in the other direction. The other direction involves a truly competitive marketplace. Unfortunately I feel that the number of folks out there preventing that from happening are the same amount of folks that are preventing single payer from happening.
                        **NOTE: The misleading post above was brought to you by Reynold's Wrap and American Steeples, makers of Crosses.

                        Originally Posted by dropthatpuck-Scooby's a lost cause.
                        Originally Posted by First Time, Long Time-Always knew you were nothing but a troll.

                        Comment


                        • Re: The PPACA - Implementation Phase I

                          Originally posted by FadeToBlack&Gold View Post
                          What a one-sided, steaming bag of poo that article is. The "sources" you cite in your concern trolling are just becoming laughable at this point - a website that runs ads pushing colloidal silver and various other garbage "supplements" is not a medical authority.
                          Talk to folks with IBD(crohns) and colloidal silver can be a god send to them.
                          I swear there ain't no heaven but I pray there ain't no hell.

                          Maine Hockey Love it or Leave it

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                          • Re: The PPACA - Implementation Phase I

                            Originally posted by walrus View Post
                            Talk to folks with IBD(crohns) and colloidal silver can be a god send to them.
                            When recommended by their physician, I presume? And not by the idiots who take it until they're literally blue in the face?
                            Last edited by FadeToBlack&Gold; 08-27-2013, 12:27 PM.

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                            • Re: The PPACA - Implementation Phase I

                              Originally posted by FadeToBlack&Gold View Post
                              When recommended by their physician, I presume? And not by the idiots who take it until they're literally blue in the face?
                              Most gastros know diddly squat about Crohns and Colitis, they'll recommend biologics and immume suppressors and tell you diet doesn't matter.
                              I swear there ain't no heaven but I pray there ain't no hell.

                              Maine Hockey Love it or Leave it

                              Comment


                              • Re: The PPACA - Implementation Phase I

                                Originally posted by walrus View Post
                                Most gastros know diddly squat about Crohns and Colitis, they'll recommend biologics and immume suppressors and tell you diet doesn't matter.
                                You're absolutely right about this. We've found one doctor here that understands how important the gut is to immunity and autoimmune disorders (my wife deals with this stuff), and she's faced nothing but slander from the institutionalized doctors in the area. She had to start her own practice from scratch and now the hospital she worked at won't accept her referrals to specialists. It's a little crazy.
                                Huskies are very intelligent and trainable. Huskies make an excellent jogging companion, as long as it is not too hot. Grooming is minimal; bathing is normally unnecessary.
                                USCHO Fantasy Baseball Champion 2011 2013 2015

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