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The PPACA - Implementation Phase I

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  • Re: The PPACA - Implementation Phase I

    Originally posted by unofan View Post
    Not raising the deficit for the federal govt and not raising costs on some people (ie those without insurance and those companies skimping on their benefits) are two different things.

    The former was stated. The latter was not.
    Plus keep your current insurance and doctors.

    UPS has told their employees that their spouses will no longer be covered by UPS's health insurance if they can be covered by their own employer's insurance. Supposedly will save UPS millions.
    CCT '77 & '78
    4 kids
    5 grandsons (BCA 7/09, CJA 5/14, JDL 8/14, JFL 6/16, PJL 7/18)
    1 granddaughter (EML 4/18)

    ”Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both.”
    - Benjamin Franklin

    Banned from the St. Lawrence University Facebook page - March 2016 (But I got better).

    I want to live forever. So far, so good.

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    • Re: The PPACA - Implementation Phase I

      Originally posted by unofan View Post
      Not raising the deficit for the federal govt and not raising costs on some people (ie those without insurance and those companies skimping on their benefits) are two different things.

      The former was stated. The latter was not.
      By anyone, ever? Riiiight... Pass me some of that medical marijuana you're smoking.

      Edit: a quick Google turned up this speech by Senator Obama:

      "We'll start by reducing premiums by as much as $2,500 per family - and we'll do it by taking the following five steps to lower costs throughout our health care system." So every family's premiums are supposed to be "up to" $2500 less, and this savings is supposed to come from across the board cost reductions in the system.

      "And we'll reward providers not just for the quantity of services they provide, but for the quality of outcomes for their patients. So you'll get better care, and we'll all save money in the long run." So each and every one of us us supposed to save money - in the long run. I wonder what timeframe he had in mind?

      "Under my plan, the federal government will pay for part of these catastrophic cases, which means that your premiums will go down." Again, he's promising that premiums will go down across the board.

      "So if you have insurance you like, you keep that insurance. If you have a doctor you like, you keep that doctor. The only thing that changes for you is that your health care costs will go down." So again, everyone who was paying premiums in 2008 was supposed to have seen those premiums come down, with no change in care whatsoever.
      Last edited by LynahFan; 08-24-2013, 04:25 PM.
      If you don't change the world today, how can it be any better tomorrow?

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      • Re: The PPACA - Implementation Phase I

        I seriously doubt that anyone's premium is going to go down.
        MTU: Three time NCAA champions.

        It never get's easier, you just go faster. -Greg Lemond

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        • Re: The PPACA - Implementation Phase I

          Originally posted by LynahFan View Post
          By anyone, ever? Riiiight... Pass me some of that medical marijuana you're smoking.

          Edit: a quick Google turned up this speech by Senator Obama:

          "We'll start by reducing premiums by as much as $2,500 per family - and we'll do it by taking the following five steps to lower costs throughout our health care system." So every family's premiums are supposed to be "up to" $2500 less, and this savings is supposed to come from across the board cost reductions in the system.

          "And we'll reward providers not just for the quantity of services they provide, but for the quality of outcomes for their patients. So you'll get better care, and we'll all save money in the long run." So each and every one of us us supposed to save money - in the long run. I wonder what timeframe he had in mind?

          "Under my plan, the federal government will pay for part of these catastrophic cases, which means that your premiums will go down." Again, he's promising that premiums will go down across the board.

          "So if you have insurance you like, you keep that insurance. If you have a doctor you like, you keep that doctor. The only thing that changes for you is that your health care costs will go down." So again, everyone who was paying premiums in 2008 was supposed to have seen those premiums come down, with no change in care whatsoever.
          Did we adopt his plan as it was written at the time of this speech, or was it changed along the way by Congress?

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          • Re: The PPACA - Implementation Phase I

            Originally posted by Priceless View Post
            Did we adopt his plan as it was written at the time of this speech, or was it changed along the way by Congress?
            At the time the bill was being debated by Congress, he was POTUS and his party controlled both branches of said Congress while holding very high approval numbers. He could have kicked some tails into place to get the votes he needed to make this thing look closer to his vision than most of us are ever able to dream, even if it did pass in a lame duck session with a future changing of the guard in the House.
            "The party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command." George Orwell, 1984

            "One does not simply walk into Mordor. Its Black Gates are guarded by more than just Orcs. There is evil there that does not sleep, and the Great Eye is ever watchful. It is a barren wasteland, riddled with fire and ash and dust, the very air you breathe is a poisonous fume." Boromir

            "Good news! We have a delivery." Professor Farnsworth

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            • Re: The PPACA - Implementation Phase I

              Originally posted by Priceless View Post
              Did we adopt his plan as it was written at the time of this speech, or was it changed along the way by Congress?
              I doubt that his plan was actually "written" at the time of the speech, but I don't think the basic principles changed all that much. I'm 99% certain that Obama (and other supporters) were using similar language up to and even after the vote - this is just the first thing I came across on Google.

              Are we really going to get into another debate about the meaning of the word "is"?
              If you don't change the world today, how can it be any better tomorrow?

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              • Originally posted by Priceless View Post
                Did we adopt his plan as it was written at the time of this speech, or was it changed along the way by Congress?
                El Presidente and the Democratic party own PPACA. They Democrats passed it and he, with great flourish, signed it.

                Its success or failure is their legacy.
                CCT '77 & '78
                4 kids
                5 grandsons (BCA 7/09, CJA 5/14, JDL 8/14, JFL 6/16, PJL 7/18)
                1 granddaughter (EML 4/18)

                ”Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both.”
                - Benjamin Franklin

                Banned from the St. Lawrence University Facebook page - March 2016 (But I got better).

                I want to live forever. So far, so good.

                Comment


                • Re: The PPACA - Implementation Phase I

                  Originally posted by joecct View Post
                  UPS has told their employees that their spouses will no longer be covered by UPS's health insurance if they can be covered by their own employer's insurance. Supposedly will save UPS millions.
                  Do you think UPS would've done that anyway? Besides being a convenient scapegoat, what exactly does the ACA do to cause that outcome?

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                  • Re: The PPACA - Implementation Phase I

                    Originally posted by unofan View Post
                    Do you think UPS would've done that anyway? Besides being a convenient scapegoat, what exactly does the ACA do to cause that outcome?
                    Given they're saying "no longer", there's your answer. For a group that constantly boasts about how "smart" they are, you really are dumb...

                    The point is that as much as employees are required to pay for insurance, the employers must be putting in a certain share as well, and with the cost of insurance rising despite the huff-and-puffers' insistence, the company cannot afford to foot that bill without you needing to pay a couple more bucks to send a package somewhere.

                    Congratulations FDR, once again your ideas screwed over the country.

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                    • Re: The PPACA - Implementation Phase I

                      Originally posted by manurespreader View Post
                      As I said, I'm in favor of the law but it comes at a price.
                      I've been sympathetic to the expressed aims and goals while being highly critical of the actual language of the law and what it actually does in practice.

                      So far, a law that purports to increase access has caused more people to lose coverage instead (the drafters apparently didn't even know that mini-med policies even existed, although hundreds of thousands of people were covered by those plans before the law made them illegal).
                      "Hope is a good thing; maybe the best of things."

                      "Beer is a sign that God loves us and wants us to be happy." -- Benjamin Franklin

                      "Being Irish, he had an abiding sense of tragedy, which sustained him through temporary periods of joy." -- W. B. Yeats

                      "People generally are most impatient with those flaws in others about which they are most ashamed of in themselves." - folk wisdom

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                      • Re: The PPACA - Implementation Phase I

                        Originally posted by unofan View Post
                        This whole thing is kind of the point of the law, which is to increase the amount of people insured (since single payer is apparently off limits here).
                        while the "point" of the law may have been in theory to increase the number of people insured, in practice it has had the opposite effect so far: mini-med plans outlawed, causing hundreds of thousands of people to lose what had been perfectly viable plans.
                        "Hope is a good thing; maybe the best of things."

                        "Beer is a sign that God loves us and wants us to be happy." -- Benjamin Franklin

                        "Being Irish, he had an abiding sense of tragedy, which sustained him through temporary periods of joy." -- W. B. Yeats

                        "People generally are most impatient with those flaws in others about which they are most ashamed of in themselves." - folk wisdom

                        Comment


                        • Re: The PPACA - Implementation Phase I

                          Originally posted by FlagDUDE08 View Post
                          Given they're saying "no longer", there's your answer. For a group that constantly boasts about how "smart" they are, you really are dumb...
                          Because businesses never lie. Like when the owner of Papa John's said the price of pizza was going to go up to pay for ObamaCare and Jon Stewart and others showed that costs under the new law would be about a dime per pizza. Meanwhile, the cost for the pizza ingredients has skyrocketed because of the massive drought in the heartland. So, what is more likely to cause the price of pizza to go up? The dime they spend on health care or the dollar they spend on ingredients?

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                          • Re: The PPACA - Implementation Phase I

                            Originally posted by Priceless View Post
                            Because businesses never lie. Like when the owner of Papa John's said the price of pizza was going to go up to pay for ObamaCare and Jon Stewart and others showed that costs under the new law would be about a dime per pizza. Meanwhile, the cost for the pizza ingredients has skyrocketed because of the massive drought in the heartland. So, what is more likely to cause the price of pizza to go up? The dime they spend on health care or the dollar they spend on ingredients?
                            Is this a trick question? Why wouldn't both things cause the price to go up???
                            If you don't change the world today, how can it be any better tomorrow?

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                            • Re: The PPACA - Implementation Phase I

                              Originally posted by LynahFan View Post
                              Is this a trick question? Why wouldn't both things cause the price to go up???
                              Yeah, UPS is pure as driven snow. I know it, everyone knows it.
                              **NOTE: The misleading post above was brought to you by Reynold's Wrap and American Steeples, makers of Crosses.

                              Originally Posted by dropthatpuck-Scooby's a lost cause.
                              Originally Posted by First Time, Long Time-Always knew you were nothing but a troll.

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                              • Re: The PPACA - Implementation Phase I

                                Originally posted by ScoobyDoo View Post
                                Yeah, UPS is pure as driven snow. I know it, everyone knows it.
                                I'd venture their packages drivers make more money than you do, pure as the driven snow? I doubt it but they pay well
                                I swear there ain't no heaven but I pray there ain't no hell.

                                Maine Hockey Love it or Leave it

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