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The PPACA - Implementation Phase I

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  • Re: The PPACA - Implementation Phase I

    Originally posted by FreshFish View Post
    I'm not familiar with the details of MA law so I wouldn't know. Does the MA law allow employers to self-insure with high-limit stop-loss coverage?

    Furthermore, how does MA law treat local offices of companies that are headquartered elsewhere? Perhaps different rules apply in that case?

    and perhaps you can explain to us why so many articles about MA experience say that in practice it turned out to be more expensive than predicted at the outset, while covering fewer people than projected?
    Unless the Huffers state it, it's not true.

    Comment


    • Re: The PPACA - Implementation Phase I

      Originally posted by FreshFish View Post

      and perhaps you can explain to us why so many articles about MA experience say that in practice it turned out to be more expensive than predicted at the outset, while covering fewer people than projected?
      kindly site these articles for us if you please? I'm always curious when people start throwing out statement what they're based on. I don't think this is an unreasonable request, no?
      Legally drunk???? If its "legal", what's the ------- problem?!? - George Carlin

      Ever notice how everybody who drives slower than you is an idiot, and everybody who drives faster is a maniac? - George Carlin

      "I've never seen so much reason and bullsh*t contained in ONE MAN."

      Comment


      • Re: The PPACA - Implementation Phase I

        Originally posted by Rover View Post
        kindly site [sic, you meant 'cite'] these articles for us if you please? I'm always curious when people start throwing out statement what they're based on. I don't think this is an unreasonable request, no?
        I'm not posting links to subscription-only trade journals, what would be the point?

        Do you argue aeronautical engineering with LynahFan, merely because you read part of an article about it once on the internet?

        I'm always amused at how readily you discard my actuarial expertise. I would have been quite happy had a decent law been passed. as I said in the original post of the "sad case" thread, no matter what your political affiliation, no matter what you thought was the right solution, the actual language of PPACA is a disaster. It is one case where any partisan of any stripe should be disappointed!

        You keep arguing that they meant well. Big deal. Good intentions don't cut it when your math is out of balance. They've set in place several negative feedback loops which can only exacerbate whatever they were trying to cure. Hold up a microphone next to a speaker broadcasting what the mike picks up and you'll hear what I mean pretty quickly!
        Last edited by FreshFish; 05-29-2013, 03:57 PM.
        "Hope is a good thing; maybe the best of things."

        "Beer is a sign that God loves us and wants us to be happy." -- Benjamin Franklin

        "Being Irish, he had an abiding sense of tragedy, which sustained him through temporary periods of joy." -- W. B. Yeats

        "People generally are most impatient with those flaws in others about which they are most ashamed of in themselves." - folk wisdom

        Comment


        • Re: The PPACA - Implementation Phase I

          Believe me, I've argued from positions of much greater ignorance than that! As sophisticated, civil, and well informed as most people tend to be around here, this is still the internet, after all.
          If you don't change the world today, how can it be any better tomorrow?

          Comment


          • Originally posted by FreshFish View Post
            Do you argue aeronautical engineering with LynahFan, merely because you read part of an article about it once on the internet?
            You argue with me about economics based on less than that, so why wouldn't he?

            Comment


            • Re: The PPACA - Implementation Phase I

              Originally posted by FreshFish View Post
              I'm not posting links to subscription-only trade journals, what would be the point?

              Do you argue aeronautical engineering with LynahFan, merely because you read part of an article about it once on the internet?

              I'm always amused at how readily you discard my actuarial expertise. I would have been quite happy had a decent law been passed. as I said in the original post of the "sad case" thread, no matter what your political affiliation, no matter what you thought was the right solution, the actual language of PPACA is a disaster. It is one case where any partisan of any stripe should be disappointed!

              You keep arguing that they meant well. Big deal. Good intentions don't cut it when your math is out of balance. They've set in place several negative feedback loops which can only exacerbate whatever they were trying to cure. Hold up a microphone next to a speaker broadcasting what the mike picks up and you'll hear what I mean pretty quickly!

              The "point" might be to prove that you're not just pulling things out of your @ ss. Whether you do that or not I can't tell as all you righties tend to run together unless they're a real closet case like Opie. However if you're going to claim massive cost overruns, cannibalism, etc, in a state I reside in, I don't think its a stretch to ask you to maybe back up some of these assertions. If you don't want to, no worries, but it doesn't exactly boost the credibility of your arguments. While you seek to have legitimacy granted to you because of the field you work in, I'll remind you that The Unibomber has a Harvard degree and I'd be taking his arguments with a grain of salt regardless. When people have a bias, as you do in this case, they'll tend to slant things a certain way. Human nature.

              Also put away the strawman because I'm not arguing the law means well, I'm arguing its the right thing to do? Why? Because its already worked in Massachusetts, which by all right wing accounts should have been broke by now with double digit unemployment. As I continually ask, why has none of that come to pass in a decent sized state (7M people) that's had the law on the books for 7 years? Surely by now we'd all be working part time and under 30 hours so our employers could skip the mandate if they hadn't already left the state. The biggest counterpoint to conservative fear mongering on this issue is the fact that's its already been done successfully.
              Last edited by Rover; 05-29-2013, 08:31 PM.
              Legally drunk???? If its "legal", what's the ------- problem?!? - George Carlin

              Ever notice how everybody who drives slower than you is an idiot, and everybody who drives faster is a maniac? - George Carlin

              "I've never seen so much reason and bullsh*t contained in ONE MAN."

              Comment


              • Re: The PPACA - Implementation Phase I

                Well who didn't see this coming... http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2013...ation-notices/

                Comment


                • Re: The PPACA - Implementation Phase I

                  Originally posted by Rover View Post
                  I'm arguing its the right thing to do.
                  If you believe in your religion, it's the "right thing to do" to ask other people to convert. That doesn't justify the Spanish Inquisition.

                  The way PPACA is written, it cannot deliver on its promises, the math simply will not work. You are behaving like the Catholic Church and I'm Galileo. Don't shoot the messenger; heed the message.
                  "Hope is a good thing; maybe the best of things."

                  "Beer is a sign that God loves us and wants us to be happy." -- Benjamin Franklin

                  "Being Irish, he had an abiding sense of tragedy, which sustained him through temporary periods of joy." -- W. B. Yeats

                  "People generally are most impatient with those flaws in others about which they are most ashamed of in themselves." - folk wisdom

                  Comment


                  • Re: The PPACA - Implementation Phase I

                    "Healthcare" in the UK:

                    http://www.opposingviews.com/i/enter...yers-foot-bill

                    Minnesota Hockey

                    Comment


                    • Re: The PPACA - Implementation Phase I

                      Originally posted by brookyone View Post
                      I wonder if the BAG can recover the cost from her based upon the alleged confession at the end of the article.
                      "The party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command." George Orwell, 1984

                      "One does not simply walk into Mordor. Its Black Gates are guarded by more than just Orcs. There is evil there that does not sleep, and the Great Eye is ever watchful. It is a barren wasteland, riddled with fire and ash and dust, the very air you breathe is a poisonous fume." Boromir

                      "Good news! We have a delivery." Professor Farnsworth

                      Comment


                      • Re: The PPACA - Implementation Phase I

                        Originally posted by St. Clown View Post
                        I wonder if the BAG can recover the cost from her based upon the alleged confession at the end of the article.
                        At the very least, if her new taxpayer financed boobs "make it all happen" as she hopes I hope they get it back from her in taxes.
                        Minnesota Hockey

                        Comment


                        • Re: The PPACA - Implementation Phase I

                          Hm, my tablet auto-corrected NHS to BAG. I didn't expect that.
                          "The party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command." George Orwell, 1984

                          "One does not simply walk into Mordor. Its Black Gates are guarded by more than just Orcs. There is evil there that does not sleep, and the Great Eye is ever watchful. It is a barren wasteland, riddled with fire and ash and dust, the very air you breathe is a poisonous fume." Boromir

                          "Good news! We have a delivery." Professor Farnsworth

                          Comment


                          • Re: The PPACA - Implementation Phase I

                            Food for thought:

                            http://www.nationalmemo.com/medicare...-to-obamacare/
                            Legally drunk???? If its "legal", what's the ------- problem?!? - George Carlin

                            Ever notice how everybody who drives slower than you is an idiot, and everybody who drives faster is a maniac? - George Carlin

                            "I've never seen so much reason and bullsh*t contained in ONE MAN."

                            Comment


                            • Re: The PPACA - Implementation Phase I

                              Originally posted by Rover View Post
                              Taking sand from one hole to fill another.

                              Comment


                              • Re: The PPACA - Implementation Phase I

                                OK, let's go by the numbers on this one. http://www.irs.gov/PUP/newsroom/REG-148500-12%20FR.pdf is the actual data, http://cnsnews.com/news/article/irs-...e-20000-family is a cliffs notes version.

                                According to this site, the penalty for a family of five making $120,000 a year living in a place that is the national average will be a charged a tax of $2400. They will be offered a credit of $2400 by paying for the lowest-level of insurance plan that will cost, per year for the five of them, anywhere between $12,000 and $20,000 ($12,000 is from http://www.factcheck.org/2013/03/oba...0000-a-family/ just in case the whiners would like to put in a rebuttal about numbers; there isn't much of a difference in the point anyway). Knowing this, and how certain high risk individuals that go skiing and break their leg bones will likely not have the same payments or possibly even qualifications as bronze coverage, are families still going to fork over five figures extra for this product, when putting that money in the bank for ten years will save enough enough to cover the cost of that broken leg?

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