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  • #91
    Re: No more Twinkies????

    Originally posted by FreshFish View Post
    Maybe it's not anyone's "fault"? sometimes things happen outside of any one person's control. technological change has disrupted many industries before and will continue to do so. you're not sitting at your desk pounding away on an Underwood on a mimeograph template that you'll attach to a spinning drum full of ink and then sticking up flyers on lampposts all over town, are you?
    Captain Fingerpoint is in full force, though. It doesn't matter to find a solution, it only matters who to blame.

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    • #92
      Re: No more Twinkies????

      Originally posted by FreshFish View Post
      Maybe it's not anyone's "fault"? sometimes things happen outside of any one person's control. technological change has disrupted many industries before and will continue to do so. you're not sitting at your desk pounding away on an Underwood on a mimeograph template that you'll attach to a spinning drum full of ink and then sticking up flyers on lampposts all over town, are you?
      Quite simply, the ownership and the labor could not agree to a value where continuing things was worth it for either of them. Given that, it is within both sides' rights to walk away from the company and go elsewhere, which is what both sides ultimately choose.

      Cornell '04, Stanford '06


      KDR

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      • #93
        Re: No more Twinkies????

        Originally posted by French Rage View Post
        Quite simply, the ownership and the labor could not agree to a value where continuing things was worth it for either of them. Given that, it is within both sides' rights to walk away from the company and go elsewhere, which is what both sides ultimately choose.
        But what about the union working damsals in distress?

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        • #94
          Re: No more Twinkies????

          Originally posted by FlagDUDE08 View Post
          But what about the union working damsals in distress?
          They need a hero to get them off of Chaos.
          CCT '77 & '78
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          5 grandsons (BCA 7/09, CJA 5/14, JDL 8/14, JFL 6/16, PJL 7/18)
          1 granddaughter (EML 4/18)

          ”Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both.”
          - Benjamin Franklin

          Banned from the St. Lawrence University Facebook page - March 2016 (But I got better).

          I want to live forever. So far, so good.

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          • #95
            Re: No more Twinkies????

            Originally posted by joecct View Post
            They need a hero to get them off of Chaos.
            Like C300? I'll be shocked if ANYONE gets that joke... it's from Dance Dance Revolution / Stepmania

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            • #96
              Re: No more Twinkies????

              Originally posted by FlagDUDE08 View Post
              So you're saying that a person is going to be able to retire based upon the existence of a company match?!
              Yes, that's exactly what I'm saying...


              I would agree that this is is a problem where everyone shares a bit of the blame for the failure of the company. My argument has been that just to point at the Teamsters and say, "It's all their fault!" (which is what certain people in this thread were doing) does not pass muster. I fail to see where this is a case of technological change impacting a company. We're talking about a dessert/snack cake here...people still want snack cakes. It's not like the market evolved and as a society we no longer want sponge cake with creamy filling. It was a company that went through management teams like they were going out of style and burned cash like an internet startup.

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              • #97
                Re: No more Twinkies????

                Originally posted by LynahFan View Post
                18,000 bakers * 2000 hours per year * $1.60 per hour = $57.6M
                It's actually a bit higher... 59,904,000 if you use 2,080 hrs (40 * 52).
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                • #98
                  Re: No more Twinkies????

                  Originally posted by Priceless View Post
                  Yes, that's exactly what I'm saying...


                  I would agree that this is is a problem where everyone shares a bit of the blame for the failure of the company. My argument has been that just to point at the Teamsters and say, "It's all their fault!" (which is what certain people in this thread were doing) does not pass muster. I fail to see where this is a case of technological change impacting a company. We're talking about a dessert/snack cake here...people still want snack cakes. It's not like the market evolved and as a society we no longer want sponge cake with creamy filling. It was a company that went through management teams like they were going out of style and burned cash like an internet startup.
                  So the union people were fine and it's all the handcuffed CEO's fault...

                  Comment


                  • #99
                    Re: No more Twinkies????

                    Originally posted by MarkEagleUSA View Post
                    It's actually a bit higher... 59,904,000 if you use 2,080 hrs (40 * 52).
                    You forgot the fringe benefits. In Uncle Sam we used 34%
                    CCT '77 & '78
                    4 kids
                    5 grandsons (BCA 7/09, CJA 5/14, JDL 8/14, JFL 6/16, PJL 7/18)
                    1 granddaughter (EML 4/18)

                    ”Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both.”
                    - Benjamin Franklin

                    Banned from the St. Lawrence University Facebook page - March 2016 (But I got better).

                    I want to live forever. So far, so good.

                    Comment


                    • Re: No more Twinkies????

                      Originally posted by FlagDUDE08 View Post
                      So the union people were fine and it's all the handcuffed CEO's fault...
                      bwaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa aaaaaaaahaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa aaaaaaaahaaaahahahahahahaha!

                      Comment


                      • Re: No more Twinkies????

                        Originally posted by FlagDUDE08 View Post
                        So you're saying that a person is going to be able to retire based upon the existence of a company match?!
                        Originally posted by FlagDUDE08 View Post
                        Captain Fingerpoint is in full force, though. It doesn't matter to find a solution, it only matters who to blame.
                        Originally posted by FlagDUDE08 View Post
                        So the union people were fine and it's all the handcuffed CEO's fault...
                        Are you really this dense or are you just trolling? I'm going with trolling...

                        Comment


                        • Re: No more Twinkies????

                          It's not just Hostess.

                          http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000...000348430.html

                          More than 1,600 insiders—executives and others controlling a company—received bonuses, salaries, fees and other compensation totaling more than $1.3 billion in the months before their companies filed for Chapter 11, according to a Wall Street Journal analysis of more than 80 bankruptcy cases over the past five years.
                          Let's all repeat our mantras, everyone: Executives are so important that they should be given performance bonuses whilst managing a failing company, at the expense of their creditors when the company files for bankruptcy (because all that "fiscal responsibility" talk is a double standard) and all the serfs below them (who will either be laid off or made to work more due to layoffs without extra compensation). Anyone who thinks otherwise is a Socialist. Repeat that ten times then make sure that your moral compass points towards "whatever gets you more money".
                          If you want to be a BADGER, just come along with me

                          BRING BACK PAT RICHTER!!!


                          At his graduation ceremony from the U of Minnesota, my cousin got a keychain. When asked what UW gave her for graduation, my sister said, "A degree from a University that matters."

                          Canned music is a pathetic waste of your time.

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                          • Re: No more Twinkies????

                            Originally posted by ExileOnDaytonStreet View Post
                            It's not just Hostess.

                            http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000...000348430.html



                            Let's all repeat our mantras, everyone: Executives are so important that they should be given performance bonuses whilst managing a failing company, at the expense of their creditors when the company files for bankruptcy (because all that "fiscal responsibility" talk is a double standard) and all the serfs below them (who will either be laid off or made to work more due to layoffs without extra compensation). Anyone who thinks otherwise is a Socialist. Repeat that ten times then make sure that your moral compass points towards "whatever gets you more money".
                            And the strike had nothing to do with it...

                            Let's all repeat our mantras, everyone: Unions are so important they should be given every dollar of salary and personal expense without ever being required to leave whilst under a failing company, at the expense of the company when it files for bankruptcy and all the investors and creditors associated with them. [gic] Anyone who thinks otherwise is a Republican. Repeat that ten times then make sure that your moral compass points towards "whatever sticks it to the greedy corporations".

                            Comment


                            • Re: No more Twinkies????

                              Originally posted by FlagDUDE08 View Post
                              And the strike had nothing to do with it...
                              It certainly had nothing to do with the golden parachutes, if that's what you're implying. Even if the bonuses (BTW: What kind of sense of entitlement do you need to have to expect bonuses during a time of poor performance?) aren't stealing from employees, it's certainly stealing from creditors who have a considerably more valid claim to that money when it goes into bankruptcy.

                              I have no pity for the role unions played in Hostess' problems (specifically the Teamsters), but it's not a very logical scapegoat for the golden parachutes.
                              Last edited by ExileOnDaytonStreet; 12-04-2012, 11:57 AM.
                              If you want to be a BADGER, just come along with me

                              BRING BACK PAT RICHTER!!!


                              At his graduation ceremony from the U of Minnesota, my cousin got a keychain. When asked what UW gave her for graduation, my sister said, "A degree from a University that matters."

                              Canned music is a pathetic waste of your time.

                              Comment


                              • Re: No more Twinkies????

                                Originally posted by ExileOnDaytonStreet View Post
                                I'm sorry, but according to Priceless, the WSJ is not a credible source on issues regarding businesses.

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