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  • Re: ObamaRama 8

    Originally posted by Priceless View Post
    We could always go back to the rates under Eisenhower.
    Considering the current and proposed spending sprees, that's probably what will happen anyway.
    "We in America do not have government by the majority. We have government by the majority who participate." -Thomas Jefferson

    "I confess I enjoy democracy immensely. It is incomparably idiotic, and hence incomparably amusing." -H. L. Mencken

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    • Re: ObamaRama 8

      Originally posted by ScottM View Post
      Considering the current and proposed spending sprees, that's probably what will happen anyway.
      sad thing is.... if they do increase rates they will only spend it. it's very easy to spend money that isn't yours.
      a legend and an out of work bum look a lot alike, daddy.

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      • Re: ObamaRama 8

        Originally posted by joecct View Post
        Pat speaks again:
        Democrats largely benefit from a system that is creaking and failing... to see this you have to see their desire to be seen as the savior of the masses and the common man and they empathize in their struggles caused by a system that they largely don't understand.

        Between that and the Dems desires to use the throne of ultimate power to save others... the normal dem doesn't care so much but the scheming Dem (congress, leadership) will see such crisis events as items that push towards goals of power and the proper ordering of society... the normal dem just sees that there's a world out there that is to be improved regardless of the consequences.... the normal dem plays into the hands of the schemer.

        Default is inevitable as much as deficit spending and borrowing is inevitable... all the interest is compound and rises faster than inflation... as long as we work with a system where our debt burden increases faster than inflation then default is in fact inevitable... and it will all come as a consequence of our noble ideal of saving us from ourselves. The road to hell is paved with good intentions.
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        • Re: ObamaRama 8

          Originally posted by rufus View Post
          And isn't that why these guys are supposed to getting paid the immense sums that they get? So greed and willfull ignorance don't overwhelm sound business practices and common sense?
          Uhh... greed and ignorance is at the core of any Wall St. hemorrhage... they get paid because they have to leverage to provide some guy with control of lots of money what he wants.

          The problem is that you want to control how much these people make based on your subjective moral system because you hate what they can do (and I'm not saying they should be liked... I think they're all arrogant clowns). and I say "you" to represent the whole lot of you guys who think that we should 'cap their salaries' and all kinds of other things that head down an ugly road of having some system telling us what we can and cannot make... something that is antithetical to a free society and leads to a society built on spite.

          The whole financial situation gets sillier and sillier... instead of cleaning the rot, they've let the rot stay in place with only the implicit threat that Obama will seek to destroy the major financial system using the american people's emotions as leverage the next time something happens. On top of that they're floating all kinds of new abstract rules that are made for the purpose of financing the government by way of spite... none of this solves the initial problem mind you. For a president who is supposed to be "smart" or have an appeal of "smart power" and "competent leadership" they sure have done less than nothing to solve the issues in the system that caused the problem.

          The problem wasn't that people defaulted on their loans or that they were "underwater" (and I hear another person complain about how they owe more than the house is worth I'm going to projectile vomit... keep paying on your house scumbag... you can clearly afford to pay the loan)... the problem was they did it at a higher rate than those who bought these CDOs thought they would and as a result it broke their attuned models on which they believed they could leverage themselves out.

          The problem hasn't actually been that some spanish family took out a loan invited 15 friends and relatives to stay until the end of rutabaga season... the problem is they defaulted more often than what the smart people thought would happen. The first is only a symptom of the rot that got infested into the system and the stupid that freely reigns.
          Last edited by Patman; 01-16-2010, 09:15 PM.
          BS UML '04, PhD UConn '09

          Jerseys I would like to have:
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          AIC Yellowjacket Jersey w/ Yellowjacket logo on front
          UAF Jersey w/ Polar Bear on Front
          Army Black Knight logo jersey


          NCAA Men's Division 1 Simulation Primer

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          • Re: ObamaRama 8

            Originally posted by rufus View Post
            And isn't that why these guys are supposed to getting paid the immense sums that they get? So greed and willfull ignorance don't overwhelm sound business practices and common sense?
            no. that is what regulators are paid for. unfortunately, the private practice guys are either smarter or in bed with the regulators and render them useless
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            • Re: ObamaRama 8

              Originally posted by mookie1995 View Post
              sad thing is.... if they do increase rates they will only spend it. it's very easy to spend money that isn't yours.
              They've already spent it
              I swear there ain't no heaven but I pray there ain't no hell.

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              • Re: ObamaRama 8

                Originally posted by Patman View Post
                Democrats largely benefit from a system that is creaking and failing... to see this you have to see their desire to be seen as the savior of the masses and the common man and they empathize in their struggles caused by a system that they largely don't understand.

                Between that and the Dems desires to use the throne of ultimate power to save others... the normal dem doesn't care so much but the scheming Dem (congress, leadership) will see such crisis events as items that push towards goals of power and the proper ordering of society... the normal dem just sees that there's a world out there that is to be improved regardless of the consequences.... the normal dem plays into the hands of the schemer.

                Default is inevitable as much as deficit spending and borrowing is inevitable... all the interest is compound and rises faster than inflation... as long as we work with a system where our debt burden increases faster than inflation then default is in fact inevitable... and it will all come as a consequence of our noble ideal of saving us from ourselves. The road to hell is paved with good intentions.
                Pat, you come across as a bit too ideological. We are trying to get ourselves out of a recession. Nobody's spending nor hiring...jump starting the economy will heal many ills including the spending of the GOP.

                But to drop to your ideological level for a moment...does it really make sense that someone who earns $40k a year working 60 hours a week at two jobs should pay more taxes than me, who made $70k with my money sitting in the bank and me sitting on my *** all day?
                Go Gophers!

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                • Re: ObamaRama 8

                  Originally posted by SteveF View Post
                  no. that is what regulators are paid for. unfortunately, the private practice guys are either smarter or in bed with the regulators and render them useless
                  So short term greed trumps any thought of long term company viability? They'd run their company into the ground if it meant just a little more cash for them this quarter? They need some external watchdog to prevent them from destroying their own company in the pursuit of ever more money?

                  I guess that's possible if they know the government will always bail them out when they fail. Which is why we should have let them all go under; then they could enjoy those bonuses they'd be getting this year.

                  I don't want to cap their pay out of spite, unless by spite you mean almost destroying our economy, and then awarding themselves for it on the backs of the taxpayers who bailed them out. They wouldn't be able to do any of this were it not for the billions the government poured into their companies.

                  And now, while millions of the people who bailed them out still sit out of work, or have lost their own houses, they have the gall to continue on business as usual, as if they did nothing at all to cause this mess.

                  Where's the accountability, where's the pure capitalism, the succeed or fail on your own merits and abilities, that you guys are so enamored of?
                  Last edited by rufus; 01-17-2010, 10:24 AM.
                  What kind of cheese are you planning to put on top?

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                  • Re: ObamaRama 8

                    Originally posted by SteveF View Post
                    no. that is what regulators are paid for. unfortunately, the private practice guys are either smarter or in bed with the regulators and render them useless
                    when most businesses fail, they hang up an 'out of business' sign. these guys have 'too big to fail' as a trump card so they can take risks and still with a straight face claim that 'my department made money, the mbs folks lost the 50 gazillion, i deserve my bonus' and get away with it.

                    commercial/savings banks want to buy IB, let the gov'ment insure personal accounts up to 100,000 and the rest are caveat emptor.
                    a legend and an out of work bum look a lot alike, daddy.

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                    • Re: ObamaRama 8

                      There was no guarantee of a bailout, decisions were not made 'knowing' the gov't would bail them out. Strategies that were employed 3-5-7 years ago were not implemented because companies knew they couldn't fail.
                      I believe in life, and I believe in love, but the world in which I live in keeps trying to prove me wrong.

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                      • Re: ObamaRama 8

                        Originally posted by rufus View Post
                        So short term greed trumps any thought of long term company viability? They'd run their company into the ground if it meant just a little more cash for them this quarter? They need some external watchdog to prevent them from destroying their own company in the pursuit of ever more money?
                        They will now, the precedent is set...certain companies get special treatment and will always get bailed out in the end. Why should Goldman Sachs or JP Morgan not risk the future to try and earn a few extra bucks, they won't be allowed to fail.

                        The moral of the story now is to make yourself so big and interwoven into so many different aspects of the economy that you can convince the government your failure will destroy everything. Then they will just pay you to stay open...
                        "It's as if the Drumpf Administration is made up of the worst and unfunny parts of the Cleveland Browns, Washington Generals, and the alien Mon-Stars from Space Jam."
                        -aparch

                        "Scenes in "Empire Strikes Back" that take place on the tundra planet Hoth were shot on the present-day site of Ralph Engelstad Arena."
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                        • Re: ObamaRama 8

                          Originally posted by rufus View Post
                          So short term greed trumps any thought of long term company viability? They'd run their company into the ground if it meant just a little more cash for them this quarter? They need some external watchdog to prevent them from destroying their own company in the pursuit of ever more money?

                          I guess that's possible if they know the government will always bail them out when they fail. Which is why we should have let them all go under; then they could enjoy those bonuses they'd be getting this year.

                          I don't want to cap their pay out of spite, unless by spite you mean almost destroying our economy, and then awarding themselves for it on the backs of the taxpayers who bailed them out. They wouldn't be able to do any of this were it not for the billions the government poured into their companies.

                          And now, while millions of the people who bailed them out still sit out of work, or have lost their own houses, they have the gall to continue on business as usual, as if they did nothing at all to cause this mess.

                          Where's the accountability, where's the pure capitalism, the succeed or fail on your own merits and abilities, that you guys are so enamored of?
                          Just remember that it was your Democrats that endorsed and passed all of this garbage. I don't hear you complaining about that, which is rich considering numerous Dems are the biggest whores of the banking industry.
                          Bruce Ciskie > PA

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                          • Re: ObamaRama 8

                            Originally posted by Plante26 View Post
                            Just remember that it was your Democrats that endorsed and passed all of this garbage. I don't hear you complaining about that, which is rich considering numerous Dems are the biggest whores of the banking industry.
                            That's revisionist history. Lots of people on both sides opposed the bailout - one of the best speeches I heard against the bailout came from Democrat Marcy Kaptur. The leadership of both parties supported the bailout, as did President Bush and both major party candidates. No political party can look back now and say they opposed the bailout.

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                            • Re: ObamaRama 8

                              Originally posted by Plante26 View Post
                              Just remember that it was your Democrats that endorsed and passed all of this garbage. I don't hear you complaining about that, which is rich considering numerous Dems are the biggest whores of the banking industry.
                              If you'll go back and see what I wrote at the time, you'll see that I was fully and ready to let these guys go under, and not bail them out.

                              So suck it. And take 'my democrats' along with you.
                              What kind of cheese are you planning to put on top?

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                              • Re: ObamaRama 8

                                Yeah this wasn't a D vs. R fight...it was "Too Big to Fail Kool Aid Drinkers" vs "Let Them Burn".

                                At first I drank the kool aid because as I always say I am not well versed on econ...then I did some research and listened and spit out the kool aid and lit the torches.

                                But no matter what they aint MY democrats
                                "It's as if the Drumpf Administration is made up of the worst and unfunny parts of the Cleveland Browns, Washington Generals, and the alien Mon-Stars from Space Jam."
                                -aparch

                                "Scenes in "Empire Strikes Back" that take place on the tundra planet Hoth were shot on the present-day site of Ralph Engelstad Arena."
                                -INCH

                                Of course I'm a fan of the Vikings. A sick and demented Masochist of a fan, but a fan none the less.
                                -ScoobyDoo 12/17/2007

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