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The 4th Global War on Terror - Deja vu all over again!

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  • Originally posted by Old Pio View Post
    No doubt about it: Neville would be much more forceful in dealing with the Russians in a hypothetical repeat of that atrocity. Like Reagan, however, he would explore means to punish them other than "unbelievably small" air strikes. Or any kind of air strikes, for that matter. This president has repeatedly announced his intention to reduce America's role in world affairs. And he is succeeding admirably. He's even helped elevate the profile and standing of an unapologetic thug. Nice work.
    Sooo....what exactly did Reagan do to punish the Soviets over that incident? A strong tongue lashing by his UN Ambassador? Isn't that kinda wimpy?



    That's the beauty of arguing with knuckledraggers. They always contradict themselves.
    Legally drunk???? If its "legal", what's the ------- problem?!? - George Carlin

    Ever notice how everybody who drives slower than you is an idiot, and everybody who drives faster is a maniac? - George Carlin

    "I've never seen so much reason and bullsh*t contained in ONE MAN."

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    • Re: The 4th Global War on Terror - Deja vu all over again!

      Shooting - with fatalities at Washington Navy Yard.

      MSNBC put its location on the wrong side of the river.

      All the networks love to speculate. Wish they'd stick to the facts.
      CCT '77 & '78
      4 kids
      5 grandsons (BCA 7/09, CJA 5/14, JDL 8/14, JFL 6/16, PJL 7/18)
      1 granddaughter (EML 4/18)

      ”Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both.”
      - Benjamin Franklin

      Banned from the St. Lawrence University Facebook page - March 2016 (But I got better).

      I want to live forever. So far, so good.

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      • Re: The 4th Global War on Terror - Deja vu all over again!

        Originally posted by joecct View Post
        Shooting - with fatalities at Washington Navy Yard.

        MSNBC put its location on the wrong side of the river.

        All the networks love to speculate. Wish they'd stick to the facts.
        I want to hear from the first one of the talking heads that sincerely suggests that we need to restrict or ban guns on military premises.
        "The party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command." George Orwell, 1984

        "One does not simply walk into Mordor. Its Black Gates are guarded by more than just Orcs. There is evil there that does not sleep, and the Great Eye is ever watchful. It is a barren wasteland, riddled with fire and ash and dust, the very air you breathe is a poisonous fume." Boromir

        "Good news! We have a delivery." Professor Farnsworth

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        • Re: The 4th Global War on Terror - Deja vu all over again!

          Originally posted by St. Clown View Post
          I want to hear from the first one of the talking heads that sincerely suggests that we need to restrict or ban guns on military premises.
          DOD has already done it. Only security personnel are routinely armed. None of the GI's slaughtered by "Dr." Hasan was armed. Otherwise, someone would have carried out his death sentence on the spot.
          Last edited by Old Pio; 09-25-2013, 07:13 PM.
          2011 Poser of the Year & Pulitzer Prize winning machine gunner.

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          • Re: The 4th Global War on Terror - Deja vu all over again!

            Who [else] would ever surrender when they are winning? !*$#&*@#!

            What the f^ck could they possibly have been thinking in Geneva last weekend?
            "Hope is a good thing; maybe the best of things."

            "Beer is a sign that God loves us and wants us to be happy." -- Benjamin Franklin

            "Being Irish, he had an abiding sense of tragedy, which sustained him through temporary periods of joy." -- W. B. Yeats

            "People generally are most impatient with those flaws in others about which they are most ashamed of in themselves." - folk wisdom

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            • Re: The 4th Global War on Terror - Deja vu all over again!

              Originally posted by FreshFish View Post
              Who [else] would ever surrender when they are winning? !*$#&*@#!

              What the f^ck could they possibly have been thinking in Geneva last weekend?
              Hey, it worked in Munich....oh, never mind.
              Growing old is mandatory -- growing up is optional!

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              • Re: The 4th Global War on Terror - Deja vu all over again!

                Originally posted by FreshFish View Post
                Who [else] would ever surrender when they are winning? !*$#&*@#!

                What the f^ck could they possibly have been thinking in Geneva last weekend?
                Umm....what would you have us do Fishy, bomb Iran immediately? Seems you'd want to encourage the more moderate leadership over there to allow inspections....unless you long for yet another Middle East war.
                Legally drunk???? If its "legal", what's the ------- problem?!? - George Carlin

                Ever notice how everybody who drives slower than you is an idiot, and everybody who drives faster is a maniac? - George Carlin

                "I've never seen so much reason and bullsh*t contained in ONE MAN."

                Comment


                • Re: The 4th Global War on Terror - Deja vu all over again!

                  Originally posted by Over View Post
                  Umm....what would you have us do [Mr.] Fish?
                  Now, what would you have us do, Smartest Poster on the Board?

                  Don't tell me you support this capitulation?

                  No, I would not bomb Iran immediately; "trust but verify" has worked quite well before. the proposed agreement does not do that, at all!

                  You tell us what you would do first this time, then I'll tell you what I'd do (which is what the bi-partisan majority in the Senate also would do, though of course you are far smarter than anyone there, perhaps you have a better idea?)


                  Seriously, you cannot possibly support what they just agreed to in Geneva, can you?


                  At least at Munich, Chamberlain didn't have an army or an air force to back him up, and Germany wasn't suffering from sanctions. There is no such excuse here. When both Saudi Arabia and Israel object so strongly, you have to suspect that they know what they are doing, since their very existence is at stake.
                  "Hope is a good thing; maybe the best of things."

                  "Beer is a sign that God loves us and wants us to be happy." -- Benjamin Franklin

                  "Being Irish, he had an abiding sense of tragedy, which sustained him through temporary periods of joy." -- W. B. Yeats

                  "People generally are most impatient with those flaws in others about which they are most ashamed of in themselves." - folk wisdom

                  Comment


                  • Re: The 4th Global War on Terror - Deja vu all over again!

                    Originally posted by FreshFish View Post
                    Now, what would you have us do, Smartest Poster on the Board?

                    Don't tell me you support this capitulation?

                    No, I would not bomb Iran immediately; "trust but verify" has worked quite well before. the proposed agreement does not do that, at all!

                    You tell us what you would do first this time, then I'll tell you what I'd do (which is what the bi-partisan majority in the Senate also would do, though of course you are far smarter than anyone there, perhaps you have a better idea?)


                    Seriously, you cannot possibly support what they just agreed to in Geneva, can you?


                    At least at Munich, Chamberlain didn't have an army or an air force to back him up, and Germany wasn't suffering from sanctions. There is no such excuse here. When both Saudi Arabia and Israel object so strongly, you have to suspect that they know what they are doing, since their very existence is at stake.
                    For starters, I don't care what the Saudis or Israel thinks. Both of those countries are free to take any action they'd like vs Iran, instead of expecting the US to do it for them.

                    What you're fundamentally missing in your straight-from-Rush's-show "analysis" is that the deal changes nothing long term. If in 6 months the Iranians don't comply, we're back to where we were last week. In fact, even harsher sanctions most likely get put into place. So, lets take it step by step, shall we?

                    1) The point of sanctions is to force negotations. Sanctions have no effect on Iran's ability to manufacture nuclear material. If they did we wouldn't be in this situation, no?

                    2) Given that these sanctions have achieved their goal of getting Iran back to the table coupled with more moderate leadership, why wouldn't be take a flyer on a 6 month, lets see how serious they are, deal. Lets say Iran allows unfettered daily access and it turns out they are complying. Great, onto a bigger agreement. Lets say they aren't. Great, onto more sanctions.

                    3) The fundamental problem with neo-conservatism/knuckledraggerism is its certainty in the righteousness of a full scale ground invasion of its enemies. Had Bush II taken Saddam's offer of completely unfettered inspections backed up at the point of a gun by US troops, we could have avoided a disasterous war that cost 5,000 lives and 1T dollars. I don't know about you, but most people would have considered that to be a good thing.

                    4) Lastly, you know you're dealing with stupidity with the whole Munich/Chamberlain nonsense. Iran has no massive army to take over the continent nor is this deal allowing them to annex its neighbors. I figured a student of history like yourself who was probably alive in 1938 would have the ability to see the vast differences.
                    Legally drunk???? If its "legal", what's the ------- problem?!? - George Carlin

                    Ever notice how everybody who drives slower than you is an idiot, and everybody who drives faster is a maniac? - George Carlin

                    "I've never seen so much reason and bullsh*t contained in ONE MAN."

                    Comment


                    • Re: The 4th Global War on Terror - Deja vu all over again!

                      Originally posted by Over View Post
                      ...[totally evading the question]....

                      Nice rhetoric. The question remains: what would you have us do? You adroitly danced around an answer to that question, you know....

                      and are you okay with Iran developing a nuclear weapon?

                      These negotiations have produced nothing whatsoever of value for us while giving Iran a green light to continue enrichment.


                      I'd prefer we increased the extent, intensity, and bite of the sanctions: obviously they are suffering, yet are still not quite willing to forego the development of a nuclear weapon. We are winning, they are losing, and yet we are giving them something very valuable to them while getting only hot air in return?

                      Stop being such a sycophant for a minute and look at this rationally. Pretend GWB and Condi Rice had negotiated the Geneva agreement instead!! how would you react then?

                      My reaction wouldn't change no matter who was negotiating the deal. Obviously you have not yet separated your politics from your ability to think clearly. Want to try again and show some reason this time instead of cheerleading?
                      "Hope is a good thing; maybe the best of things."

                      "Beer is a sign that God loves us and wants us to be happy." -- Benjamin Franklin

                      "Being Irish, he had an abiding sense of tragedy, which sustained him through temporary periods of joy." -- W. B. Yeats

                      "People generally are most impatient with those flaws in others about which they are most ashamed of in themselves." - folk wisdom

                      Comment


                      • Re: The 4th Global War on Terror - Deja vu all over again!

                        Originally posted by FreshFish View Post
                        Nice rhetoric. The question remains: what would you have us do? You adroitly danced around an answer to that question, you know....

                        and are you okay with Iran developing a nuclear weapon?

                        These negotiations have produced nothing whatsoever of value for us while giving Iran a green light to continue enrichment.


                        I'd prefer we increased the extent, intensity, and bite of the sanctions: obviously they are suffering, yet are still not quite willing to forego the development of a nuclear weapon. We are winning, they are losing, and yet we are giving them something very valuable to them while getting only hot air in return?

                        Stop being such a sycophant for a minute and look at this rationally. Pretend GWB and Condi Rice had negotiated the Geneva agreement instead!! how would you react then?

                        My reaction wouldn't change no matter who was negotiating the deal. Obviously you have not yet separated your politics from your ability to think clearly. Want to try again and show some reason this time instead of cheerleading?

                        Fishy I would be happy to trade insults with you if you'd like, which I suspect might be your real intention here. However, as you rarely win those exchanges with me, you might consider staying on topic.

                        So, you have a bunch of questions. Lets see what we have here....

                        1) I don't want Iran to develop a nuclear weapon. At the same time, if another country (say Israel) feels more threatened by Iran than we do at any given point, I fully support their ability to act on their own. Its about time other countries start solving their own problems.

                        2) Iran has and will continue to have the ability to enrich no matter what sanctions we place on them. How do we know this? Because the sanctions already in place have done nothing to stop them. Only a full scale ground invasion would and I'm not going for that. So, with that fact in mind, what do we do next?

                        3) Simply put, put in an inspection program. Much like the US and Soviets did back in the late 80's. If it works, great. If it doesn't even worse sanctions are on the way. This deal allows the US the moral high ground to continue to tighten the screw if needed, and on this issue we absolutely need the world's cooperation. If China or Russia decides to do business as usual with Iran, the sanctions become meaningless.

                        4) I don't care if GWB and Condi had negotiated this, any more than I cared when Reagan struck a deal with Gorby. Reducing nukes is reducing nukes.

                        So, I have managed to answer your questions without insulting you. You failed in that regard in your first reply to me. Lets see if you can accept the challenge of responding without the personal vitriol that stains too many of your post.
                        Legally drunk???? If its "legal", what's the ------- problem?!? - George Carlin

                        Ever notice how everybody who drives slower than you is an idiot, and everybody who drives faster is a maniac? - George Carlin

                        "I've never seen so much reason and bullsh*t contained in ONE MAN."

                        Comment


                        • Re: The 4th Global War on Terror - Deja vu all over again!

                          Is Iran denying the terms of the deal?
                          I swear there ain't no heaven but I pray there ain't no hell.

                          Maine Hockey Love it or Leave it

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                          • Re: The 4th Global War on Terror - Deja vu all over again!

                            Originally posted by walrus View Post
                            Is Iran denying the terms of the deal?
                            Or they can ignore the treaty. There is ample precedence.
                            CCT '77 & '78
                            4 kids
                            5 grandsons (BCA 7/09, CJA 5/14, JDL 8/14, JFL 6/16, PJL 7/18)
                            1 granddaughter (EML 4/18)

                            ”Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both.”
                            - Benjamin Franklin

                            Banned from the St. Lawrence University Facebook page - March 2016 (But I got better).

                            I want to live forever. So far, so good.

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