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  • The 4th Global War on Terror - Deja vu all over again!

    The last post by Kepler:

    Monitoring them? Don't you know he's coordinating them?! Come on, get those righty talking points lined up.
    CCT '77 & '78
    4 kids
    5 grandsons (BCA 7/09, CJA 5/14, JDL 8/14, JFL 6/16, PJL 7/18)
    1 granddaughter (EML 4/18)

    ”Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both.”
    - Benjamin Franklin

    Banned from the St. Lawrence University Facebook page - March 2016 (But I got better).

    I want to live forever. So far, so good.

  • #2
    Re: The 4th Global War on Terror - Deja vu all over again!

    People use the term "asymmetrical warfare" from time to time....in this case we have several different factors of which each one is asymmetrical:
    > these fanatical terrorists are at war with us, whether we want to be warring with them or not. Our "desires" don't matter to them in the slightest: we can be friendly or gruff, aggressive or pacifist, it won't matter: they want to weaken us to the point where we retreat behind our borders and have nothing to do with the rest of the world (or at least they force us to retreat from the Middle East entirely and leave them completely alone there)
    > they are not a country or a government; yet are granted safe havens in some countries with the tacit approval of some parts of those countries' governments
    > a few relatively low-tech weapons can be used with great ingenuity to cause great damage and to disrupt any potential high-tech advantages we may have

    While a healthy debate over what to do might be constructive, to cast it in terms of domestic partisan politics, as both parties and too many posters have done, seems irresponsible at best. this should not be a Republican - Democrat issue nor a conservative - progressive issue (except to the extent that some people might say that "it's not worth it to police the world; it's okay to retreat from it; we can't afford to maintain armies abroad, so okay, let them "win" we'll keep our borders secure).

    I actually wouldn't mind if some people said, "fine, let's surrender." That's an honest point of view honestly expressed (I'd disagree, but it would be a respectful conversation; there are plenty of merits in that argument that I would grant; I'd merely emphasize other items more highly than those advocating surrender would). However, some seem by behavior to indicate "surrender" while giving lip service to the opposite, which makes conversation really head-scratching: which am I supposed to believe, what you say or what you do?

    My father and I had very different views; most of our conversations would be
    Him: "I think A, B, and C are of primary importance; although I grant you that D, E, and F are important too, just not as important."
    Me: "I think D, E, and F are of primary importance; although I grant you that A, B, and C are important too, just not as important."

    It seems like reasoned dialog has become a lost skill; giving way name-calling and slander and pseudo-cleverness. What a shame.
    Last edited by FreshFish; 09-13-2012, 03:23 PM.
    "Hope is a good thing; maybe the best of things."

    "Beer is a sign that God loves us and wants us to be happy." -- Benjamin Franklin

    "Being Irish, he had an abiding sense of tragedy, which sustained him through temporary periods of joy." -- W. B. Yeats

    "People generally are most impatient with those flaws in others about which they are most ashamed of in themselves." - folk wisdom

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    • #3
      Re: The 4th Global War on Terror - Deja vu all over again!

      Originally posted by FreshFish View Post
      It seems like reasoned dialog has become a lost skill; giving way name-calling and slander and pseudo-cleverness.
      Reasoned dialog is not a lost skill -- it happens all the time in pairs and even small groups. It's just rarely if ever found in an open forum.

      The internet is a mob yowling. That has never been a good place to debate. The loudest, the dumbest, and the most violent will always overwhelm it.

      I'm sure any pair of people, even the ones who come across as completely insane, could conduct a superior intellectual exchange in person over a beer than any other pair of people, even the ones who are honest and open minded, could conduct in any open internet forum.
      Cornell University
      National Champion 1967, 1970
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      • #4
        Re: The 4th Global War on Terror - Deja vu all over again!

        I've been too busy to even get the latest on what's happening in Mid East - and this is where I really miss Priceless and his summaries and links, where are you buddy? - but I heard an interesting story on NPR this morning about how it's going to take a lot of investigating (we're sending an FBI team over to Libya, with others) just to figure out what physically happened. There was a lot of talk about a "systematic, sustained mortar attack" and so on that led some people to believe that the Libya attack was a long time in the planning and may be a sign of something more serious afoot. Does anyone have info.?
        Beyond this cryptically humorous tweet, which brought this subject back to my mind just now.
        Huskies are very intelligent and trainable. Huskies make an excellent jogging companion, as long as it is not too hot. Grooming is minimal; bathing is normally unnecessary.
        USCHO Fantasy Baseball Champion 2011 2013 2015

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        • #5
          Re: The 4th Global War on Terror - Deja vu all over again!

          No intended political spin here... I swear. This isn't about left or right, it's just about lunatics being hilarious:

          If you want to be a BADGER, just come along with me

          BRING BACK PAT RICHTER!!!


          At his graduation ceremony from the U of Minnesota, my cousin got a keychain. When asked what UW gave her for graduation, my sister said, "A degree from a University that matters."

          Canned music is a pathetic waste of your time.

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          • #6
            Re: The 4th Global War on Terror - Deja vu all over again!

            Originally posted by Kepler View Post
            Reasoned dialog is not a lost skill -- it happens all the time in pairs and even small groups. It's just rarely if ever found in an open forum.

            The internet is a mob yowling. That has never been a good place to debate. The loudest, the dumbest, and the most violent will always overwhelm it.

            I'm sure any pair of people, even the ones who come across as completely insane, could conduct a superior intellectual exchange in person over a beer than any other pair of people, even the ones who are honest and open minded, could conduct in any open internet forum.
            You do your fair share of yowling, bub. Or did you modestly exclude yourself?
            2011 Poser of the Year & Pulitzer Prize winning machine gunner.

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: The 4th Global War on Terror - Deja vu all over again!

              Originally posted by Kepler View Post
              The internet is a mob yowling. That has never been a good place to debate. The loudest, the dumbest, and the most violent will always overwhelm it.
              As an ivy leaguer, you should have experience with that already.

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: The 4th Global War on Terror - Deja vu all over again!

                Originally posted by geezer View Post
                I've been too busy to even get the latest on what's happening in Mid East - and this is where I really miss Priceless and his summaries and links, where are you buddy? - but I heard an interesting story on NPR this morning about how it's going to take a lot of investigating (we're sending an FBI team over to Libya, with others) just to figure out what physically happened. There was a lot of talk about a "systematic, sustained mortar attack" and so on that led some people to believe that the Libya attack was a long time in the planning and may be a sign of something more serious afoot. Does anyone have info.?
                Beyond this cryptically humorous tweet, which brought this subject back to my mind just now.
                There are many references that the group had rocket launchers and it was a pretty sophisticated assault. Lots if you google it. All signs of a local terrorist cell and therefore, not having to do with the public.
                Go Gophers!

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: The 4th Global War on Terror - Deja vu all over again!

                  I'm of the opinion that if the Muslim Brotherhood doesn't take action in support of the US we cut military support and give it to Israel.

                  I'm of the opinion that if Israel doesn't take action by condemning the film (that appears to be of Jewish source), then rather then give them that support, we let them handle this on their own.

                  Countries either take steps themself to defuse escalated violence...or they face the consequences on their own.
                  Go Gophers!

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: The 4th Global War on Terror - Deja vu all over again!

                    The video, whatever it is, is a complete cop out. Is it is piece of ****? Yes. Should it have been made? No, but not because it would incite murder, because it is simply the wrong thing to do. The fact that a video, no matter what it is, gives some human scum the impression that it is a free pass to murder is the biggest problem. (even though, they're just using this as any excuse to kill, not as the actual reason for murder) It is freedom of speech, just because we don't agree with something, doesn't mean that it can't be said, or made. I think people should be able to say whatever the **** they want to, whether I agree with it or not, and no matter what is said it should absolutely not result in murder. The problem here is the muslim scum of the earth, not a video, and I say this while completely disagreeing with what the video said.
                    Having a clear conscience just means you have a bad memory or you had a boring weekend.

                    RIP - Kirby

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                    • #11
                      Re: The 4th Global War on Terror - Deja vu all over again!

                      I like the title.
                      Code:
                      As of 9/21/10:         As of 9/13/10:
                      College Hockey 6       College Football 0
                      BTHC 4                 WCHA FC:  1
                      Originally posted by SanTropez
                      May your paint thinner run dry and the fleas of a thousand camels infest your dead deer.
                      Originally posted by bigblue_dl
                      I don't even know how to classify magic vagina smoke babies..
                      Originally posted by Kepler
                      When the giraffes start building radio telescopes they can join too.
                      He's probably going to be a superstar but that man has more baggage than North West

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                      • #12
                        Re: The 4th Global War on Terror - Deja vu all over again!

                        Originally posted by 5mn_Major View Post
                        I'm of the opinion that if the Muslim Brotherhood doesn't take action in support of the US we cut military support and give it to Israel.

                        I'm of the opinion that if Israel doesn't take action by condemning the film (that appears to be of Jewish source), then rather then give them that support, we let them handle this on their own.

                        Countries either take steps themself to defuse escalated violence...or they face the consequences on their own.
                        Should the Vatican condemn Mel Gibson films?
                        CCT '77 & '78
                        4 kids
                        5 grandsons (BCA 7/09, CJA 5/14, JDL 8/14, JFL 6/16, PJL 7/18)
                        1 granddaughter (EML 4/18)

                        ”Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both.”
                        - Benjamin Franklin

                        Banned from the St. Lawrence University Facebook page - March 2016 (But I got better).

                        I want to live forever. So far, so good.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: The 4th Global War on Terror - Deja vu all over again!

                          Originally posted by bigblue_dl View Post
                          The video, whatever it is, is a complete cop out. Is it is piece of ****? Yes. Should it have been made? No, but not because it would incite murder, because it is simply the wrong thing to do. The fact that a video, no matter what it is, gives some human scum the impression that it is a free pass to murder is the biggest problem.
                          I think we're largely agreed here. Guys involved in the film were militant sobs. They do have fee speech.

                          Its a similar situation to if somehow the Westboro group's actions directly led to a death. Their actions are not technically murder but they do have some repsonsibility here.

                          Originally posted by joecct View Post
                          Should the Vatican condemn Mel Gibson films?
                          Not Beyond Thunderdome.

                          Have you seen Passion? Critics accurately call it a two hour snuff film that has the intended outcome of inciting rage to an effect that is diametrically opposed to what Jesus stood for. Any Christian organization with a conscience should condemn that film.
                          Go Gophers!

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: The 4th Global War on Terror - Deja vu all over again!

                            Originally posted by 5mn_Major View Post
                            Their actions are not technically murder but they do have some repsonsibility here.


                            .
                            So the idiots who made the film are responsible for the murder of the ambassador?
                            I swear there ain't no heaven but I pray there ain't no hell.

                            Maine Hockey Love it or Leave it

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                            • #15
                              Re: The 4th Global War on Terror - Deja vu all over again!

                              Originally posted by geezer View Post
                              I've been too busy to even get the latest on what's happening in Mid East - and this is where I really miss Priceless and his summaries and links, where are you buddy? - but I heard an interesting story on NPR this morning about how it's going to take a lot of investigating (we're sending an FBI team over to Libya, with others) just to figure out what physically happened. There was a lot of talk about a "systematic, sustained mortar attack" and so on that led some people to believe that the Libya attack was a long time in the planning and may be a sign of something more serious afoot. Does anyone have info.?.

                              Intelligence officials believe the attack was plotted by an al Qaeda affiliate in Libya. It was meant to both mark the anniversary of the Sept. 11 terror attacks and retaliate for the recent killing of a top al Qaeda leader in a drone strike
                              Read more: http://www.nypost.com/p/news/interna...#ixzz26RWlCFED
                              "Hope is a good thing; maybe the best of things."

                              "Beer is a sign that God loves us and wants us to be happy." -- Benjamin Franklin

                              "Being Irish, he had an abiding sense of tragedy, which sustained him through temporary periods of joy." -- W. B. Yeats

                              "People generally are most impatient with those flaws in others about which they are most ashamed of in themselves." - folk wisdom

                              Comment

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