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2012 Presidential Election Part II -- Charlotte, a National Treasure or sede vacante

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  • Re: 2012 Presidential Election Part II -- Charlotte, a National Treasure or sede vaca

    Originally posted by FreshFish View Post
    It's interesting to see that the Democrats basically are banking on the majority of the voting populace being stupid, or at least unable to think clearly enough to make a connection.

    They keep talking about what terrible things the Republicans will do to address the nation's problems, while offering no solutions of their own. do the Democrats really believe that only by increasing taxes on "the rich" that all of our fiscal problems will be solved?

    Obama says he wants to spend spend spend (okay "invest" "invest" "invest") yet offers no way to pay for that "investment." and sheeply meekly accept that without question?

    yikes.
    Look, Obama will win re-election for one reason. We don't throw our incumbent presidents out of office unless, a) they are successfully portrayed as having been ineffective during their first term, and b) they are matched up against a charismatic, effective campaigner.

    Accomplishing the first step is easily achieved, and will be again this year. It's the second one that's a lot harder, and Romney is not that guy. He's Kerry, Mondale, Dole, redux.
    Last edited by SJHovey; 09-06-2012, 08:51 AM.
    That community is already in the process of dissolution where each man begins to eye his neighbor as a possible enemy, where non-conformity with the accepted creed, political as well as religious, is a mark of disaffection; where denunciation, without specification or backing, takes the place of evidence; where orthodoxy chokes freedom of dissent; where faith in the eventual supremacy of reason has become so timid that we dare not enter our convictions in the open lists, to win or lose.

    Comment


    • Re: 2012 Presidential Election Part II -- Charlotte, a National Treasure or sede vaca

      Originally posted by unofan View Post
      Look, I admire you for sticking to your guns, but are you honestly trying to lay the blame for wage stagnation on unions at a point in time when union membership is at an all time low?

      Besides, I've been told in the past by certain posters on here that unions cause employees to earn too much pay, not too little.
      Gross pay, sure. Take home pay, no. Guess where those raises go? Dues. Union workers have even told me this. The worker gets screwed over much more than you'd think. Then, and this is especially true in a closed union system, the union boss has the ability to bully you over what you do at the workplace, because obviously you can't have a job unless you're in the union, and even in states that observe the Taft-Hartley Act, union bosses will tell their workers to be hostile towards those not in the unions and create a not-so-nice working environment in order for the "clan" to win out. In all reality, every union worker is a sheep to the boss's gain.

      Comment


      • Re: 2012 Presidential Election Part II -- Charlotte, a National Treasure or sede vaca

        Originally posted by FreshFish View Post
        It's interesting to see that the Democrats basically are banking on the majority of the voting populace being stupid, or at least unable to think clearly enough to make a connection.

        They keep talking about what terrible things the Republicans will do to address the nation's problems, while offering no solutions of their own. do the Democrats really believe that only by increasing taxes on "the rich" that all of our fiscal problems will be solved?

        Obama says he wants to spend spend spend (okay "invest" "invest" "invest") yet offers no way to pay for that "investment." and sheeply meekly accept that without question?

        yikes.

        Ummmm...Fishy, the Democratic plan is the grand bargain walked away from by The Boner. I sure he was sobbing the whole time too. Unlike the Ryan generational favoratism plan, this allows some domestic spending while cutting the bloated military and raising taxes on GOP campaign contributors who got most of the Bush tax cuts. Try to keep up, will ya?
        Legally drunk???? If its "legal", what's the ------- problem?!? - George Carlin

        Ever notice how everybody who drives slower than you is an idiot, and everybody who drives faster is a maniac? - George Carlin

        "I've never seen so much reason and bullsh*t contained in ONE MAN."

        Comment


        • Re: 2012 Presidential Election Part II -- Charlotte, a National Treasure or sede vaca

          Originally posted by Rover View Post
          Ummmm...Fishy, the Democratic plan is the grand bargain walked away from by The Boner. I sure he was sobbing the whole time too. Unlike the Ryan generational favoratism plan, this allows some domestic spending while cutting the bloated military and raising taxes on GOP campaign contributors who got most of the Bush tax cuts. Try to keep up, will ya?
          You are debating a Talking Point Dispenser.
          Cornell University
          National Champion 1967, 1970
          ECAC Champion 1967, 1968, 1969, 1970, 1973, 1980, 1986, 1996, 1997, 2003, 2005, 2010
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          Comment


          • Re: 2012 Presidential Election Part II -- Charlotte, a National Treasure or sede vaca

            Originally posted by SJHovey View Post
            Look, Obama will win re-election for one reason. We don't throw our incumbent presidents out of office unless, a) they are successfully portrayed as having been ineffective during their first term, and b) they are matched up against a charismatic, effective campaigner.

            Accomplishing the first step is easily achieved, and will be again this year. It's the second one that's a lot harder, and Romney is not that guy. He's Kerry, Mondale, Dole, redux.
            yeah, i see what you mean. in our own little informal poll, Not Obama 62.5%, Obama 37.5%, yet Obama has a plurality.
            "Hope is a good thing; maybe the best of things."

            "Beer is a sign that God loves us and wants us to be happy." -- Benjamin Franklin

            "Being Irish, he had an abiding sense of tragedy, which sustained him through temporary periods of joy." -- W. B. Yeats

            "People generally are most impatient with those flaws in others about which they are most ashamed of in themselves." - folk wisdom

            Comment


            • Re: 2012 Presidential Election Part II -- Charlotte, a National Treasure or sede vaca

              Originally posted by Kepler View Post
              You are debating a Talking Point Dispenser.
              Wait, what, you think he's debating you???
              "Hope is a good thing; maybe the best of things."

              "Beer is a sign that God loves us and wants us to be happy." -- Benjamin Franklin

              "Being Irish, he had an abiding sense of tragedy, which sustained him through temporary periods of joy." -- W. B. Yeats

              "People generally are most impatient with those flaws in others about which they are most ashamed of in themselves." - folk wisdom

              Comment


              • Re: 2012 Presidential Election Part II -- Charlotte, a National Treasure or sede vaca

                Originally posted by Rover View Post
                Ummmm...Fishy, the Democratic plan is the grand bargain walked away from by The Boner. I sure he was sobbing the whole time too. Unlike the Ryan generational favoratism plan, this allows some domestic spending while cutting the bloated military and raising taxes on GOP campaign contributors who got most of the Bush tax cuts. Try to keep up, will ya?

                You don't appear to understand how taxes work. the person who remits the tax to the government often is not the person who actually bears the burden of the tax.

                Do you truly think retailers "pay" the sales tax?

                I'm not a supporter of "trickle down" economics; that clearly hasn't worked. We need some kind of "well-spring economics" of some sort.

                however, I am 100% certain of this: "vacuum up" economics will not work, and that is what the Democrats propose. It has never worked. No matter what tax rates are, no matter what tax law says, the "rich" have consistently paid about 20% of their income in taxes over the decades. 20% tax on all income actually is much higher than it appears considering how our graduated tax rate system works.

                If there are high tax rates, then Congressional representatives of both parties will make sure to insert loopholes for favored constituencies, you can take that to the bank. High tax rates are an illusion; they are never collected as published. Congressional representatives like re-election better than they like anything else.
                "Hope is a good thing; maybe the best of things."

                "Beer is a sign that God loves us and wants us to be happy." -- Benjamin Franklin

                "Being Irish, he had an abiding sense of tragedy, which sustained him through temporary periods of joy." -- W. B. Yeats

                "People generally are most impatient with those flaws in others about which they are most ashamed of in themselves." - folk wisdom

                Comment


                • Re: 2012 Presidential Election Part II -- Charlotte, a National Treasure or sede vaca

                  Originally posted by SJHovey View Post
                  Look, Obama will win re-election for one reason. We don't throw our incumbent presidents out of office unless, a) they are successfully portrayed as having been ineffective during their first term, and b) they are matched up against a charismatic, effective campaigner.
                  We get so deep in the weeds we probably forget this simple truth.

                  Here are the all-time records for elected incumbents in re-elections:

                  Election Incumbent Result

                  1792 Washington W
                  1800 Adams L
                  1804 Jefferson W
                  1812 Madison W
                  1820 Monroe W
                  1828 Adams L
                  1832 Jackson W
                  1840 Van Buren L
                  1864 Lincoln W
                  1872 Grant W
                  1888 Cleveland L
                  1892 Harrison L
                  1900 McKinley W
                  1912 Taft L
                  1916 Wilson W
                  1932 Hoover L
                  1936 Roosevelt W
                  1940 Roosevelt W
                  1944 Roosevelt W
                  1956 Eisenhower W
                  1972 Nixon W
                  1980 Carter L
                  1984 Reagan W
                  1992 Bush L
                  1996 Clinton W
                  2004 Bush W

                  .654 17-9 overall
                  .714 10-4 since 1900
                  .727 8-3 since 1924 (ubiquitous radio)
                  .714 5-2 since 1956 (ubiquitous television)
                  1.000 2-0 since 1996 (ubiquitous internet)
                  Cornell University
                  National Champion 1967, 1970
                  ECAC Champion 1967, 1968, 1969, 1970, 1973, 1980, 1986, 1996, 1997, 2003, 2005, 2010
                  Ivy League Champion 1966, 1967, 1968, 1969, 1970, 1971, 1972, 1973, 1977, 1978, 1983, 1984, 1985, 1996, 1997, 2002, 2003, 2004, 2005, 2012, 2014, 2018, 2019, 2020

                  Comment


                  • Re: 2012 Presidential Election Part II -- Charlotte, a National Treasure or sede vaca

                    Originally posted by Kepler View Post
                    .727 8-3 since 1924 (ubiquitous radio)
                    And the three who won were FDR, Reagan and Clinton, three very charismatic personalities and great public speakers.
                    That community is already in the process of dissolution where each man begins to eye his neighbor as a possible enemy, where non-conformity with the accepted creed, political as well as religious, is a mark of disaffection; where denunciation, without specification or backing, takes the place of evidence; where orthodoxy chokes freedom of dissent; where faith in the eventual supremacy of reason has become so timid that we dare not enter our convictions in the open lists, to win or lose.

                    Comment


                    • Re: 2012 Presidential Election Part II -- Charlotte, a National Treasure or sede vaca

                      Originally posted by FreshFish View Post
                      It's interesting to see that the Democrats basically are banking on the majority of the voting populace being stupid, or at least unable to think clearly enough to make a connection.

                      They keep talking about what terrible things the Republicans will do to address the nation's problems, while offering no solutions of their own. do the Democrats really believe that only by increasing taxes on "the rich" that all of our fiscal problems will be solved?

                      Obama says he wants to spend spend spend (okay "invest" "invest" "invest") yet offers no way to pay for that "investment." and sheeply meekly accept that without question?

                      yikes.
                      Yes because the GOP is not banking on the same stupidity. This is the party that claims Paul Ryan is a deficit hawk and fiscally responsible (not to mention Mr. Honesty) even though he voted for all of the Bush spending actions and no ways to pay for it. (oh and he lies every time he opens his mouth, which is the GOP mantra these days 'We dont need no stinkin fact checkers!!)

                      Just keep telling yourself though one party is better...I am sure deep in your heart it is really true
                      "It's as if the Drumpf Administration is made up of the worst and unfunny parts of the Cleveland Browns, Washington Generals, and the alien Mon-Stars from Space Jam."
                      -aparch

                      "Scenes in "Empire Strikes Back" that take place on the tundra planet Hoth were shot on the present-day site of Ralph Engelstad Arena."
                      -INCH

                      Of course I'm a fan of the Vikings. A sick and demented Masochist of a fan, but a fan none the less.
                      -ScoobyDoo 12/17/2007

                      Comment


                      • Re: 2012 Presidential Election Part II -- Charlotte, a National Treasure or sede vaca

                        Originally posted by Handyman View Post
                        Just keep telling yourself though one party is better...I am sure deep in your heart it is really true
                        Yes but third parties rarely receive very much of the vote.
                        "Hope is a good thing; maybe the best of things."

                        "Beer is a sign that God loves us and wants us to be happy." -- Benjamin Franklin

                        "Being Irish, he had an abiding sense of tragedy, which sustained him through temporary periods of joy." -- W. B. Yeats

                        "People generally are most impatient with those flaws in others about which they are most ashamed of in themselves." - folk wisdom

                        Comment


                        • Re: 2012 Presidential Election Part II -- Charlotte, a National Treasure or sede vaca

                          Originally posted by Handyman View Post
                          Yes because the GOP is not banking on the same stupidity. This is the party that claims Paul Ryan is a deficit hawk and fiscally responsible (not to mention Mr. Honesty) even though he voted for all of the Bush spending actions and no ways to pay for it. (oh and he lies every time he opens his mouth, which is the GOP mantra these days 'We dont need no stinkin fact checkers!!)

                          Just keep telling yourself though one party is better...I am sure deep in your heart it is really true
                          I think you're fooling yourself into your complaints about "paying for it", because it is not a SHORT TERM way to pay for it. The budget deficits between FY 2002 and FY 2007 were approximately the same in nominal terms. If you would like to consider inflation, then the real deficit in 2007 was less than 2002.

                          There are two ways to attempt to increase revenue, both short term and long term. The short term is your suggestion in raising taxes regardless of present situation. Sure, the nominal amount for each individual and business goes up, but there's no guarantee that that number will remain high the next year. How is that possible? Well, for individuals, they could re-neg the source of income gain and turn to cash. The easiest way to see this is dividends and capital gains; all they have to do is sell and hang onto the cash.

                          The long term is adjusting tax rates to the vertex of the Laffer parabola. If you go in the correct direction, you will gain more in aggregate tax money because either more people are willing to get in with a lower rate that they'd have to pay, or you truly are gaining more in revenue by going the other direction. If your present point on the parabola is to the left of the vertex (assuming tax rate increases along the x-axis), then yes, raising taxes would be a smart thing. I don't think we're there, though, which is why you see fiscal conservatives (GOP and Libertarian) calling for decreases in tax rates. If you play around with property tax rates on Sim City, it's the same thing. Sure, it's a video game, but a pretty decent representation of a person's reaction to tax rates.

                          There is something that does need to be changed if we want to grow the economy, though, but it isn't something that a President can directly control, nor can he indirectly control until 2014.

                          Comment


                          • Re: 2012 Presidential Election Part II -- Charlotte, a National Treasure or sede vaca

                            The Laffer Curve again? Seriously, dude, hang it up.
                            **NOTE: The misleading post above was brought to you by Reynold's Wrap and American Steeples, makers of Crosses.

                            Originally Posted by dropthatpuck-Scooby's a lost cause.
                            Originally Posted by First Time, Long Time-Always knew you were nothing but a troll.

                            Comment


                            • Re: 2012 Presidential Election Part II -- Charlotte, a National Treasure or sede vaca

                              Originally posted by ScoobyDoo View Post
                              The Laffer Curve again? Seriously, dude, hang it up.
                              What is wrong with the Laffer curve, in terms of actual money raised and people's willingness to pay it? This question is not rhetorical.

                              Comment


                              • Re: 2012 Presidential Election Part II -- Charlotte, a National Treasure or sede vaca

                                Originally posted by FreshFish View Post
                                It's interesting to see that the Democrats basically are banking on the majority of the voting populace being stupid, or at least unable to think clearly enough to make a connection.

                                I can't believe that I'm reading this line. The GOP's entire existence as a major party is almost completely dependent upon the stupidity of their constituents... their inability to think clearly... their dependence upon the teat that is GOP talking points.

                                Suckle away!

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