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2012 Presidential Election Part II -- Charlotte, a National Treasure or sede vacante

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  • FreshFish
    replied
    Re: 2012 Presidential Election Part II -- Charlotte, a National Treasure or sede vaca

    Originally posted by Gurtholfin View Post
    There are actually two Kochs and only one Soros.

    Are you saying that there are just as many billionaires supporting democrats as there are billionaires supporting republicans? Seriously?
    Well, list them out....I'll bet you $1 that there are more wealthy people supporting democrats than there are wealthy people supporting republicans, as long as we agree that Bloomberg is neither.

    Kennedy, Kerry, Soros, Pelosi, Corzine, Buffett, 3/4 of Hollywood, definitely on the left, no?

    Koch, a guy whose name I can't recall, another guy whose name I can't recall, Bush, definitely on the right.

    Gates, non-partisan, as far as I can tell. Bloomberg, off in his own place, wherever that is.

    Wall St. typically gives more money to Democrats than Republicans, though I can't find the supporting data right now...and that may have changed since the Dodd - Frank monstrosity was enacted (do we need a Constitutional amendment outlawing bills more than 100 pages long?? sheesh.)


    I don't care one way or the other, if you can give me the data, I'll accept it. Based on what I've seen and heard, yes, I'd say more wealthy people support Democrats than Republicans. Obama certainly thinks so, he spends plenty of time making life miserable for Manhattan commuters with all his *&%#@! fundraisers during rush hour!
    Last edited by FreshFish; 09-27-2012, 11:09 PM.

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  • dxmnkd316
    replied
    Re: 2012 Presidential Election Part II -- Charlotte, a National Treasure or sede vaca

    Originally posted by Old Pio View Post
    It's not an especially relevant datum, since there are so few of them, but what about the "Oracle of Omaha?"
    He counts for two Kochs right? Or is that four?

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  • Old Pio
    replied
    Re: 2012 Presidential Election Part II -- Charlotte, a National Treasure or sede vaca

    Originally posted by FreshFish View Post
    It does seem that, when it comes to politics, both the left and the right are moving to the extremes, while at the same time people who actively identify with either the left or the right are dwindling in number. There are almost no "blue dog" Democrats left; there are few "RINO"s left. Yet surveys of party affiliation also find fewer people identify with either party.

    For every Koch there's a Soros, for every Corzine there's a McMahon. More ideological litmus tests at either extreme and lots of big money to stir them up and keep them roiling.



    Back when we had to walk uphill both going to school and also coming home, barefoot through the snow, politics was an occasional thing. Now it seems we can't escape it.
    I disagree to this extent: while it's true the public debate seems to be dominated by the extremes, that doesn't mean we're buying all they're selling. I'm not convinced we're as divided as the commentariate would have us believe.

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  • Old Pio
    replied
    Re: 2012 Presidential Election Part II -- Charlotte, a National Treasure or sede vaca

    Originally posted by Gurtholfin View Post
    There are actually two Kochs and only one Soros.

    Are you saying that there are just as many billionaires supporting democrats as there are billionaires supporting republicans? Seriously?
    It's not an especially relevant datum, since there are so few of them, but what about the "Oracle of Omaha?"

    Leave a comment:


  • Guest's Avatar
    Guest replied
    Re: 2012 Presidential Election Part II -- Charlotte, a National Treasure or sede vaca

    Originally posted by FreshFish View Post
    For every Koch there's a Soros,
    There are actually two Kochs and only one Soros.

    Are you saying that there are just as many billionaires supporting democrats as there are billionaires supporting republicans? Seriously?

    Leave a comment:


  • Guest's Avatar
    Guest replied
    Re: 2012 Presidential Election Part II -- Charlotte, a National Treasure or sede vaca

    Originally posted by 5mn_Major View Post
    Where have all the conservative Scarborough's gone? I may disagree on some issues...but there's a guy who values a balanced perspective, very pragmatic by letting the issues and not ideology drive his perspective, and willing to call out his team when they mess up & not just to show others that 'he's somehow moderate'. I wish congress would pay enough to attract more like him...rather than attracting those rabidly addicted to ideology.
    Yeah, I like him. He's someone that I don't agree with all the time, but I enjoy hearing his perspective as it doesn't have the overt agenda behind it that so many others do.

    Leave a comment:


  • FreshFish
    replied
    Re: 2012 Presidential Election Part II -- Charlotte, a National Treasure or sede vaca

    Originally posted by Tiggsy View Post
    I think that works both ways.
    It does seem that, when it comes to politics, both the left and the right are moving to the extremes, while at the same time people who actively identify with either the left or the right are dwindling in number. There are almost no "blue dog" Democrats left; there are few "RINO"s left. Yet surveys of party affiliation also find fewer people identify with either party.

    For every Koch there's a Soros, for every Corzine there's a McMahon. More ideological litmus tests at either extreme and lots of big money to stir them up and keep them roiling.

    Back when we had to walk uphill both going to school and also coming home, barefoot through the snow, politics was an occasional thing. Now it seems we can't escape it.

    Leave a comment:


  • FreshFish
    replied
    Re: 2012 Presidential Election Part II -- Charlotte, a National Treasure or sede vaca

    Originally posted by ScoobyDoo View Post
    That's funny cause when I think of conservatives the last thing I think of is less government power. Seems to me they spend all their time on what women do with their bodies, which two people are getting married, and who is voting in an election.
    Perhaps so....that's the problem with labels, no? they conceal and divide as much as they reveal and explain.

    While a significant minority of people may be ideologically consistent; I suspect most people are not. My own inclination is to be an empiricist or a pragmatist. I'm comfortable with being wrong, admitting mistakes, learning new things. I'm okay with using a pencil and eraser.

    One thing that I've noticed empirically is that rule number one for people in power is to remain in power. I do not trust the government to watch out for me; I am not upset that people in government would have as their first priority to watch out for themselves...after all, that's human nature. I do find it sad when people become vested in one side or the other "winning"....do you really think either candidate cares about us? In their own way, Romney and Obama each are primarily about stroking their own egos, no?

    Leave a comment:


  • Old Pio
    replied
    Re: 2012 Presidential Election Part II -- Charlotte, a National Treasure or sede vaca

    Originally posted by ScoobyDoo View Post
    Conservatives today would find Eisenhower and Reagan to be RINO's. Obama doesn't even qualify as a liberal half the time. In fact he's more conservative in many waves than GW. So, I rest my case. Oh, I knew Bob would side with Old Pio. Both posters who espouse their supposed middle of the road rhetoric on here every day and go nuts with faux outrage every time someone calls them what they are, radical.
    The analytical prowess of a gerbil.

    Leave a comment:


  • dxmnkd316
    replied
    Re: 2012 Presidential Election Part II -- Charlotte, a National Treasure or sede vaca

    Originally posted by Gurtholfin View Post
    No WAY! You found a Youtube video of someone saying something radical!?!? I'm shocked. SHOCKED, I SAY!!
    I assume we'll have a similar response to the next time someone posts a picture of some ****** saying keep the government out of my medicare or some such stupidity.

    Leave a comment:


  • Handyman
    replied
    Re: 2012 Presidential Election Part II -- Charlotte, a National Treasure or sede vaca

    Originally posted by Kepler View Post
    Well, this is embarrassing. Fox News spent the day spreading the meme that the polls are wrong because COMMUNIST LIBRUL BIAS BRAINWASHING SATAN. And then the Fox News poll came out.
    I was told the polls dont matter

    Leave a comment:


  • ScoobyDoo
    replied
    Re: 2012 Presidential Election Part II -- Charlotte, a National Treasure or sede vaca

    Conservatives today would find Eisenhower and Reagan to be RINO's. Obama doesn't even qualify as a liberal half the time. In fact he's more conservative in many waves than GW. So, I rest my case. Oh, I knew Bob would side with Old Pio. Both posters who espouse their supposed middle of the road rhetoric on here every day and go nuts with faux outrage every time someone calls them what they are, radical.

    Leave a comment:


  • Old Pio
    replied
    Re: 2012 Presidential Election Part II -- Charlotte, a National Treasure or sede vaca

    Originally posted by Kepler View Post
    I think that is overstated. While there is some evidence of an age arc, the effect of where you start is almost wholly determined by your parents' and neighbors' ideologies. So somebody from a center left family might have a tendency to go hard left as a college student, center left as an adult, and centrist as a retiree, while somebody from a center right family might have a tendency to go centrist as a college student, center right as an adult, and hard right as a retiree.

    And of course it's all tendencies undone constantly by individual cases. As I've gotten older and taken on more responsibilities I've moved farther left. It was easy to be libertarian when everybody I knew was a A student working their way to a great job. Having kids, meeting people from other backgrounds, and -- for lack of a better word -- growing up has made it impossible to carry those simplistic libertarian viewpoints into adulthood.
    I believe it was Pauline Kael who said: "I can't understand how Nixon won, nobody I know voted for him."

    Leave a comment:


  • Kepler
    replied
    Re: 2012 Presidential Election Part II -- Charlotte, a National Treasure or sede vaca

    Well, this is embarrassing. Fox News spent the day spreading the meme that the polls are wrong because COMMUNIST LIBRUL BIAS BRAINWASHING SATAN. And then the Fox News poll came out.

    Leave a comment:


  • Kepler
    replied
    Re: 2012 Presidential Election Part II -- Charlotte, a National Treasure or sede vaca

    Originally posted by FadeToBlack&Gold View Post
    I used to think that people's political views evolved heavily from what their parents believed and taught them (especially young conservatives). I think this is true until high school graduation, when almost everyone gets at least a little free-spirited when they move off to college and see a little more of the world. The next big leap comes when you get that first job, unchain yourself from your parents' charity (if applicable), and have to fend for yourself. Then you have your first kid, and it becomes all about what you think is best for your kids - this is usually where many ex-liberal ideologues become increasingly moderate, if not eventually outright conservative by retirement.
    I think that is overstated. While there is some evidence of an age arc, the effect of where you start is almost wholly determined by your parents' and neighbors' ideologies. So somebody from a center left family might have a tendency to go hard left as a college student, center left as an adult, and centrist as a retiree, while somebody from a center right family might have a tendency to go centrist as a college student, center right as an adult, and hard right as a retiree.

    And of course it's all tendencies undone constantly by individual cases. As I've gotten older and taken on more responsibilities I've moved farther left. It was easy to be libertarian when everybody I knew was a A student working their way to a great job. Having kids, meeting people from other backgrounds, and -- for lack of a better word -- growing up has made it impossible to carry those simplistic libertarian viewpoints into adulthood.
    Last edited by Kepler; 09-27-2012, 09:25 PM.

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