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2012 Presidential Election Part II -- Charlotte, a National Treasure or sede vacante

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  • Re: 2012 Presidential Election Part II -- Charlotte, a National Treasure or sede vaca

    Originally posted by SJHovey View Post
    On what do you base this? Isn't that the crux of the Laffer curve problem -- No one really knows exacly where that optimum point is? I don't know where it's at (or if it even exists), but given the relatively low tax rates (historically), it will take more than supposition to cause me to conclude we're at it, or to the right of it.
    In 2003, when taxes were cut, we were certainly to the right, as revenues and receipts, as a percentage of GDP, increased. ( http://www.whitehouse.gov/sites/defa...ssets/hist.pdf page 25 ). Obviously the credit crash of 2008 did change matters, and the curve itself moved. One thing that is true, from the same link, is that receipts as a percentage of GDP are down, yet outlays as a percentage of GDP are up. To get an idea, as of 2011, the US GDP is $15.09T, so approximately a 9% deficit is about right. One other factor to include is QE1 and QE2, as those would also move the curve since wages remained nominally stagnant.

    Personally, I think the one thing that actually needs to be done is to raise Federal Funds rates. That is one area where we are most certainly to the left of the curve. There's plenty of demand for cash, but no one wants to give it out because there's no return incentive. This is another big difference between 1996 and 2012. Sadly, I cannot find record of federal funds rates (if any) during the Great Depression, but it would not surprise me if they were as low as they are now, and that the banks during the Roosevelt administration decide to raise it. The biggest difference between then and now, though, is that we have a fiat currency, and so the money supply does change.

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    • Re: 2012 Presidential Election Part II -- Charlotte, a National Treasure or sede vaca

      Originally posted by jmh View Post
      If the American public have brains, rising gas prices shouldn't motivate them to vote for the candidate whose party platform is that we should stick with the 1950s transportation policies got us into this oil-addicted mess in the first place.
      I don't think I understand what you are saying....if gasoline prices keep increasing, are you saying voters will opt for the person who is against drilling for oil and gas and who blocked a pipeline from oil producers to refineries?
      "Hope is a good thing; maybe the best of things."

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      • Re: 2012 Presidential Election Part II -- Charlotte, a National Treasure or sede vaca

        Originally posted by ScoobyDoo View Post
        The fundamental issue is that there are many nations on this planet that pay much higher taxes than Americans do. "Willingness To Pay" is a meaningless metric. You either pay or you go to jail. Unfortunately here in America we don't do enough on the enforcement side which allows people like Mitt Romney to hide their cash in the Cayman's and in Switzerland.
        Right, all 0 countries that have a higher corporate tax rate. Also, "willingness to pay" is not meaningless, because you can move to another country. Look at how the rich are looking to flee France because of the incredibly high rate on the highest earners. Look at how people are leaving New York State in droves due to high state taxes.

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        • Re: 2012 Presidential Election Part II -- Charlotte, a National Treasure or sede vaca

          Originally posted by FreshFish View Post
          I don't think I understand what you are saying....if gasoline prices keep increasing, are you saying voters will opt for the person who is against drilling for oil and gas and who blocked a pipeline from oil producers to refineries?
          Then why is domestic oil and gas production at an all time high?
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          • Re: 2012 Presidential Election Part II -- Charlotte, a National Treasure or sede vaca

            Originally posted by jmh View Post
            If the American public have brains, rising gas prices shouldn't motivate them to vote for the candidate whose party platform is that we should stick with the 1950s transportation policies got us into this oil-addicted mess in the first place.
            If the American public have brains, they'll understand why gas prices have risen in relation to the various oil prices, not to mention the difference between the prices (WTI and Brent), and how the incumbent's environmental policies are not allowing the country to do anything with the resources it has, thereby making the product worthless on the market, compared to the product of worth where the American public pays an arm and a leg.

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            • Re: 2012 Presidential Election Part II -- Charlotte, a National Treasure or sede vaca

              Originally posted by Rover View Post
              Then why is domestic oil and gas production at an all time high?
              It's because of the heroic efforts of the oil companies, Republican governors, and Republican ex-presidents who have all sacrificed their personal comforts and have given of their vast talents to deliver gas to the common people even in the face of the ineffectual, shrill, flailing resistance of our commie president.
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              • Re: 2012 Presidential Election Part II -- Charlotte, a National Treasure or sede vaca

                Originally posted by Rover View Post
                Then why is domestic oil and gas production at an all time high?
                Natural gas production is at an all-time high because of fracking. You already knew that. Are you trying to imply that Obama somehow had something to do with it?
                "Hope is a good thing; maybe the best of things."

                "Beer is a sign that God loves us and wants us to be happy." -- Benjamin Franklin

                "Being Irish, he had an abiding sense of tragedy, which sustained him through temporary periods of joy." -- W. B. Yeats

                "People generally are most impatient with those flaws in others about which they are most ashamed of in themselves." - folk wisdom

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                • Re: 2012 Presidential Election Part II -- Charlotte, a National Treasure or sede vaca

                  Originally posted by geezer View Post
                  It's because of the heroic efforts of the oil companies, Republican governors, and Republican ex-presidents who have all sacrificed their personal comforts and have given of their vast talents to deliver gas to the common people even in the face of the ineffectual, shrill, flailing resistance of our commie president.
                  The Republicans are certainly full of natural gas.
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                  • Re: 2012 Presidential Election Part II -- Charlotte, a National Treasure or sede vaca

                    Down goes Pennsylvania.

                    So the GOP, oops, sorry, the Totally Unaffiliated Super PACs Wink Wink have now pulled their ads in NM, MI, and PA. Their road is just that much tougher.

                    This story is possibly a much bigger deal, however. The Romney campaign stopped spending in OH right after the GOP voter suppression effort was struck down. I can't imagine they'll go gently into that dark night (their Orval Faubus-wanna be Governor is even dragging his feet on enforcing the ruling) because without OH their electoral math is basically drawing three cards to try to complete a straight.

                    OTOH, WI is now within 1 point, which is about a 9-point swing towards Romney on the strength of Ryan.
                    Last edited by Kepler; 09-06-2012, 12:45 PM.
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                    • Re: 2012 Presidential Election Part II -- Charlotte, a National Treasure or sede vaca

                      Having the Dems boo God may cost them a few votes in the wrong places.
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                      • Re: 2012 Presidential Election Part II -- Charlotte, a National Treasure or sede vaca

                        Originally posted by walrus View Post
                        Really? I'd say if the price gas keeps going up he is toast
                        Its all speculation or opinion. But Id say gas prices are a bit overrated. I think certainly huge in rural and exurbs. Frankly, I'm not even sure how high gas prices are right now. But I think the big economic barometer is the stock market.
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                        • Re: 2012 Presidential Election Part II -- Charlotte, a National Treasure or sede vaca

                          Originally posted by walrus View Post
                          Really? I'd say if the price gas keeps going up he is toast
                          Originally posted by FreshFish View Post
                          I don't think I understand what you are saying....if gasoline prices keep increasing, are you saying voters will opt for the person who is against drilling for oil and gas and who blocked a pipeline from oil producers to refineries?
                          I'm not saying what voters will do. I'm saying what voters should do if they're smart enough to realize that transportation and land use policies of the last 50-60 years are to blame for the fact that we need to resort to those measures, and that one party is devoted to resisting any kind of change to those policies.
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                          • Re: 2012 Presidential Election Part II -- Charlotte, a National Treasure or sede vaca

                            Originally posted by geezer View Post
                            It's because of the heroic efforts of the oil companies, Republican governors, and Republican ex-presidents who have all sacrificed their personal comforts and have given of their vast talents to deliver gas to the common people even in the face of the ineffectual, shrill, flailing resistance of our commie president.
                            Ah, I see.

                            Not sure why Mittens and his sycophants are pulling out of MI and PA. If he's really so flush with cash, why not put some bucks into these states and make a play for them? Maybe you cause Obama to spend there. Or, maybe even if you don't win those states, your involvement helps pull a few more Repubs in down ballot races over the finish line. I don't get why Romney would run a Kerry campaign as in lets just compete for the the bare minimum amount of states that would put you over the top and ignore all the others.
                            Legally drunk???? If its "legal", what's the ------- problem?!? - George Carlin

                            Ever notice how everybody who drives slower than you is an idiot, and everybody who drives faster is a maniac? - George Carlin

                            "I've never seen so much reason and bullsh*t contained in ONE MAN."

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                            • Re: 2012 Presidential Election Part II -- Charlotte, a National Treasure or sede vaca

                              Originally posted by joecct View Post
                              Having the Dems boo God may cost them a few votes in the wrong places.
                              The mentality that reduces God to a corporate sponsor is already 100% Republican.
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                              • Re: 2012 Presidential Election Part II -- Charlotte, a National Treasure or sede vaca

                                Originally posted by FreshFish View Post
                                Yes but third parties rarely receive very much of the vote.
                                That is because of Sheeple like you.

                                Just because millions watch Honey Boo Boo doesnt make it a good show. Just because the Sheeple vote for the letter behind the candidate doesnt mean they are the right people to lead.

                                Go back to using Disney flicks to give you your political ideals you were more interesting that way
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