The 2012 Presidential Election Part I - The guns of August

[BCeagle]

Re: The 2012 Presidential Election Part I - The guns of August

But Ryan hasn't killed a guy's wife. . .yet.

Maybe not, but if his fiscal policies are enacted, the middle class, poor, and elderly are screwed. It's almost like a death sentence for these people that these politicians supposedly work for.

Now, they're flip flopping on whose plan they're talking about. Ryan or Romney plan when the media ask them questions. How about Mrs. Romney admitting that if they open up their finances, they're afraid of opening a can of worms. Nothing to hide???

The GOP is on the defensive when they are asked straight questions and the image they project is not positive. They evade the question asked or talk over you in their usual tactics. The fact of the matter is, the GOP cares only about making Obama a 1-term president and will do anything to make him look bad and block any progressive legislation. They don't want to compromise on anything, their attitude is, it's my way or the highway on budget matters.

[Bill]

Re: The 2012 Presidential Election Part I - The guns of August

Probably because it's not a fundamental right to board an airplane.

Voter fraud is a myth with no historical support. Voter intimidation is a fact with tons of historical support.

If voter fraud was truly a myth, there would be no reason for anyone to oppose showing a photo ID to vote.

[Bob Gray]

Re: The 2012 Presidential Election Part I - The guns of August

Give the Obama campaign a week. They'll be selling Ryan as an ax murderer.

[Old Pio]

Re: The 2012 Presidential Election Part I - The guns of August

Maybe not, but if his fiscal policies are enacted, the middle class, poor, and elderly are screwed. It's almost like a death sentence for these people that these politicians supposedly work for.

Now, they're flip flopping on whose plan they're talking about. Ryan or Romney plan when the media ask them questions. How about Mrs. Romney admitting that if they open up their finances, they're afraid of opening a can of worms. Nothing to hide???

The GOP is on the defensive when they are asked straight questions and the image they project is not positive. They evade the question asked or talk over you in their usual tactics. The fact of the matter is, the GOP cares only about making Obama a 1-term president and will do anything to make him look bad and block any progressive legislation. They don't want to compromise on anything, their attitude is, it's my way or the highway on budget matters.

Dream on. The Ryan plan proposes to restore the 700 Billion His Wonderfulness has already cut from Medicare. "Almost like a death sentence" eh? Whatever happened to His Newtoneness' promises about sticking to the high road? Could it possibly be that he and his surrogates have concluded they can't run on his record? The flip side of wanting His Oneness to be a one term president is the desire to do anything, say anything to get him re-elected. That's better? That's politics. And like the man said, it ain't beanbag.

And all of this "progressive legislation" is laid out in the Senate budget proposals. Wait. How many years has it been since they've submitted one?

As to Romney's tax returns, all they will provide is more ammunition to pander and demagogue to low information voters. I've proposed a trade: Romney's tax returns for His Panderness' transcripts. What do you say?

[Old Pio]

Re: The 2012 Presidential Election Part I - The guns of August

Give the Obama campaign a week. They'll be selling Ryan as an ax murderer.

This will be reported by the MSM as the new "positive" approach.

[Handyman]

Re: The 2012 Presidential Election Part I - The guns of August

So the question is...Will Ryan get his own cross to hang from or will you let him use yours Bob?

[SJHovey]

Re: The 2012 Presidential Election Part I - The guns of August

Voter fraud is a myth with no historical support.

But if you can prove Kepler wrong, at least in the state of Minnesota, it could be worth some coin.

[Old Pio]

Re: The 2012 Presidential Election Part I - The guns of August

But if you can prove Kepler wrong, at least in the state of Minnesota, it could be worth some coin.

How would you "prove" it to the satisfaction of the ACLU? The people really in the know about voter fraud are the ones engaging in it. Recent reports show hundreds of felons who were not eligible to vote, did so and almost certainly gave the bulk of their votes to the "comedian."

[SJHovey]

Re: The 2012 Presidential Election Part I - The guns of August

How would you "prove" it to the satisfaction of the ACLU? The people really in the know about voter fraud are the ones engaging in it. Recent reports show hundreds of felons who were not eligible to vote, did so and almost certainly gave the bulk of their votes to the "comedian."

I'm assuming that if you had proof of an actual conviction of someone that would be enough, although I doubt they'd pay. They also covered their butts by limiting the window of time.

[joecct]

Re: The 2012 Presidential Election Part I - The guns of August

Probably because it's not a fundamental right to board an airplane.

Voter fraud is a myth with no historical support. Voter intimidation is a fact with tons of historical support.

Kepler -- see the 1994 Maryland Gubernatorial Glendening vs. Sauerbrey .

[Old Pio]

Re: The 2012 Presidential Election Part I - The guns of August

I'm assuming that if you had proof of an actual conviction of someone that would be enough, although I doubt they'd pay. They also covered their butts by limiting the window of time.

I'm reminded of that anti-Semitic outfit (Institute for Historical Review, founded by America's foremost anti-Semite, Willis Carto) that offered a $50,000 reward for anyone who could prove the Holocaust existed. Specifically, gassings at Auswitz. A guy named Mel Mermelstein offered the proof, which of course, IHR rejected. He took them to court, charging breach of promise, and won ($90,000). Judicial/legal binding recognition of the Holocaust. What's known as a "legally incontestable fact." Mel is a true hero.

[Bob Gray]

Re: The 2012 Presidential Election Part I - The guns of August

Voter fraud is a myth with no historical support.

As compared to a myth with historical support.

[SJHovey]

Re: The 2012 Presidential Election Part I - The guns of August

I'm reminded of that anti-Semitic outfit (Institute for Historical Review, founded by America's foremost anti-Semite, Willis Carto) that offered a $50,000 reward for anyone who could prove the Holocaust existed. A guy named Mel Mermelstein offered the proof, which of course, IHR rejected. He took them to court, charging breach of promise, and won ($90,000). Judicial/legal binding recognition of the Holocaust. Mel is a true hero.

In Minnesota, a debt owed out of a bet is not enforceable, so that would give the ACLU another out.

I think there was a study, or multiple studies that showed in Minnesota there have been a total of about 100 convictions for voter fraud over the past 3-4 years. IIRC, most of them are things like felons voting. Not real sure if any involved fraudulent use of another's id.

Voter fraud isn't a myth, but I'm also not convinced it's a problem anywhere near the proportion represented to justify things such as constitutional amendments.

[walrus]

Re: The 2012 Presidential Election Part I - The guns of August

I still haven't quite figured out why it's okay for airlines to require that people show a photo ID to board an airplane but it's "controversial" to ask voters to show a photo ID to vote, especially when states provide photo ID cards for free!!

Try to buy OTC Sudafed without an ID, I can vote but I can't take what the Doctor told me to take without an ID

[Old Pio]

Re: The 2012 Presidential Election Part I - The guns of August

In Minnesota, a debt owed out of a bet is not enforceable, so that would give the ACLU another out.

I think there was a study, or multiple studies that showed in Minnesota there have been a total of about 100 convictions for voter fraud over the past 3-4 years. IIRC, most of them are things like felons voting. Not real sure if any involved fraudulent use of another's id.

Voter fraud isn't a myth, but I'm also not convinced it's a problem anywhere near the proportion represented to justify things such as constitutional amendments.

Usually not. But in very close elections, a few extra ballots here and there can make the difference. Like the Senate election in Washington state a few years ago. Where, after the ballots were counted. and a winner declared, some ballots were "found" in Democratic King county and the race went to Christine Gregoire. Just a few thousand votes put JFK in the WH instead of Nixon. And by curious happenstance, those votes were in Illinois and Texas (home of "landslide Lyndon").

During convention coverage one year, Pulitzer Prize winner Teddy White (author of the "Making of the President series") was asked what he thought about a direct vote for president. Just eliminate the electoral college. His response: "What, and turn the election of the POTUS over to those crooks in Texas and Illinois?"

I have no idea how widespread the practice of people voting fraudulently might be. What's the standard of proof? The ballot is secret. So, sometime after the election some individuals confess that they voted more than once. So what? This will be dismissed as an anomaly. But having folks identify themselves BEFORE they cast a fraudulent ballot would seem to go a long way toward eliminating the problem, regardless of how big it is.

In an article I read recently about voter fraud in Minnesota, it was explained that to be convicted, an individual must be shown to have known what he was doing was illegal. And (here's another surprise) these guys customarily claim not to know. I'm shocked. Shocked. The article talked about something like 1900 felons voting in the controversial senate election. More than enough to tip the outcome.

I don't know about the ACLU's offer in Minnesota, but the conflict between Mr. Mermelstein and IHR was definitely not a "bet" in any accepted meaning of the word. They had made an offer, publicized it, and when Mermelstein fulfilled the requirements of their offer, they welshed. The court made 'em pay.