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Obama XXIV: Forward ... pause ... rewind ... play

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  • Re: Obama XXIV: Forward ... pause ... rewind ... play

    Mitt Romney basically forces people to flip flop to support him. The Republicans got a lot of deserved play out of Pelosi's stupid "We have to pass this bill to see what's in it" and their next presidential candidate runs on "You have to elect me to find out what I'm actually planning to do."
    "I went over the facts in my head, and admired how much uglier the situation had just become. Over the years I've learned that ignorance is more than just bliss. It's freaking orgasmic ecstasy".- Harry Dresden, Blood Rites


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    • Re: Obama XXIV: Forward ... pause ... rewind ... play

      Originally posted by ScoobyDoo View Post
      I agree here too. I think what Bob was getting at was the major issues of the day will not be solved (i.e. entitlements, overall spending, the actual role of the federal government, etc.)
      Well, to a large extent these aren't "problems" that can be solved, they are long term political battles that will continue as long as voters have different opinions.

      Upton Sinclair said, "the history of the United States is the battle between business and democracy." That won't be "solved." It will just oscillate onward forever, with first one side gaining the ascendancy (democracy 1932-80) and then the other (business 1980-present).

      A "problem" is something "SMART" (specific, measurable, actionable, realistic, and time-bound) like "how can we slow the growth of the budget deficit for the next ten years?" or "how can we promote economic growth during the next ten years?" or "how can we reduce the number of people below the poverty line during the next ten years?" Those are problems that can be solved, and whether we solve them (or even try) is what elections are about.
      Last edited by Kepler; 09-20-2012, 01:32 PM.
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      • Re: Obama XXIV: Forward ... pause ... rewind ... play

        Originally posted by Kepler View Post
        Well, to a large extent these aren't "problems" that can be solved, they are long term political battles that will continue as long as voters have different opinions.

        Upton Sinclair once said, "the history of the United States is the battle of business against democracy." That won't be "solved." It will just oscillate onward forever.
        I suppose. That's too bad. The Constitution should have been more clear about the differences between Federal and State power I guess.
        **NOTE: The misleading post above was brought to you by Reynold's Wrap and American Steeples, makers of Crosses.

        Originally Posted by dropthatpuck-Scooby's a lost cause.
        Originally Posted by First Time, Long Time-Always knew you were nothing but a troll.

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        • Re: Obama XXIV: Forward ... pause ... rewind ... play

          Originally posted by ScoobyDoo View Post
          I agree here too. I think what Bob was getting at was the major issues of the day will not be solved (i.e. entitlements, overall spending, the actual role of the federal government, etc.). No question in my mind though that policy does matter and Mitt Romney is a train wreck on policy.
          Yes, that's what I was getting at. I don't see either of them doing nearly enough to save our nation from fiscal ruin. And if that's the case, nuances on one policy or another aren't going to matter worth squat. When you're broke, and in debt almost beyond measure, you have bigger worries.

          Anyone here who thinks either of these candidates have what it takes and can truly right the ship, please raise your hand.
          Originally posted by Priceless
          Good to see you're so reasonable.
          Originally posted by ScoobyDoo
          Very well, said.
          Originally posted by Rover
          A fair assessment Bob.

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          • Re: Obama XXIV: Forward ... pause ... rewind ... play

            Originally posted by Bob Gray View Post
            Anyone here who thinks either of these candidates have what it takes and can truly right the ship, please raise your hand.
            The ship is never righted or sunk by the captain. The captain can either do smart or dumb things, but ultimately the ship only cares about physics.
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            • Re: Obama XXIV: Forward ... pause ... rewind ... play

              Originally posted by ScoobyDoo View Post
              I suppose. That's too bad. The Constitution should have been more clear about the differences between Federal and State power I guess.
              The Constitution did not legislate human nature. The tension in our political environment is the tension between different interest groups. The whole idea was to set the rigging so the tensions canceled each other out and drove the ship forward.

              But we now have half the sailors trying to cut through the rigging, and yelling "seamanship is slavery!" And we wonder why the ship is going in circles.
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              • Re: Obama XXIV: Forward ... pause ... rewind ... play

                Originally posted by Kepler View Post
                The ship is never righted or sunk by the captain. The captain can either do smart or dumb things, but ultimately the ship only cares about physics.
                Ships certainly can be sunk by captains. Though in this case I generally agree with your point that the president by himself, can't fix things. Of course having candidates that seem to be honest and having a clue about actually fixing things would be nice. But, then again, such a candidate would get slaughtered for such honesty. Look at the 47 percent mess. Not the best example as it had a partisan spin on it, but really it way understated how bad things are.
                Originally posted by Priceless
                Good to see you're so reasonable.
                Originally posted by ScoobyDoo
                Very well, said.
                Originally posted by Rover
                A fair assessment Bob.

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                • Re: Obama XXIV: Forward ... pause ... rewind ... play

                  Originally posted by Bob Gray View Post
                  Ships certainly can be sunk by captains. Though in this case I generally agree with your point that the president by himself, can't fix things. Of course having candidates that seem to be honest and having a clue about actually fixing things would be nice. But, then again, such a candidate would get slaughtered for such honesty. Look at the 47 percent mess. Not the best example as it had a partisan spin on it, but really it way understated how bad things are.
                  True, but dig deeper and start to figure out what policies created the 47% in the first place. The tax code is a sham but no one on Capital Hill will address it properly in detail because every tax deduction has a lot of lobby money behind it.
                  **NOTE: The misleading post above was brought to you by Reynold's Wrap and American Steeples, makers of Crosses.

                  Originally Posted by dropthatpuck-Scooby's a lost cause.
                  Originally Posted by First Time, Long Time-Always knew you were nothing but a troll.

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                  • Re: Obama XXIV: Forward ... pause ... rewind ... play

                    Originally posted by Kepler View Post
                    But we now have half the sailors trying to cut through the rigging, and yelling "seamanship is slavery!" And we wonder why the ship is going in circles.
                    darn those public sector unions.
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                    • Re: Obama XXIV: Forward ... pause ... rewind ... play

                      Originally posted by ScoobyDoo View Post
                      True, but dig deeper and start to figure out what policies created the 47% in the first place. The tax code is a sham but no one on Capital Hill will address it properly in detail because every tax deduction has a lot of lobby money behind it.
                      Agreed on the tax code. There's a whole lot than can be done better, and fairer, there and many other places. But, I'd argue the fiscal imbalances, such as a $1.2 trillion federal deficit, are so massive now that they are getting beyond the ability to fix by tweaking the tax code or whatever. People talk about a fiscal cliff if the cuts kick in, what, at the end of the year? If that's true, it's a sign of doom. Because those cuts that will supposedly lead to a fiscal cliff at the end of this year are far milder than what would need to be done to get the federal budget remotely toward being balanced. The tax increases/spending cuts necessary to do that would then seem to drive us off the highest cliff in the entire world. The numbers are beyond scary and I'm afraid we're simply living on borrowed time, literally.
                      Originally posted by Priceless
                      Good to see you're so reasonable.
                      Originally posted by ScoobyDoo
                      Very well, said.
                      Originally posted by Rover
                      A fair assessment Bob.

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                      • Re: Obama XXIV: Forward ... pause ... rewind ... play

                        Originally posted by Bob Gray View Post
                        Agreed on the tax code. There's a whole lot than can be done better, and fairer, there and many other places. But, I'd argue the fiscal imbalances, such as a $1.2 trillion federal deficit, are so massive now that they are getting beyond the ability to fix by tweaking the tax code or whatever. People talk about a fiscal cliff if the cuts kick in, what, at the end of the year? If that's true, it's a sign of doom. Because those cuts that will supposedly lead to a fiscal cliff at the end of this year are far milder than what would need to be done to get the federal budget remotely toward being balanced. The tax increases/spending cuts necessary to do that would then seem to drive us off the highest cliff in the entire world. The numbers are beyond scary and I'm afraid we're simply living on borrowed time, literally.
                        Well, if we want cuts to happen then maybe we need to let them happen? The fiscal cliff is no scarier to me then what could have happened in 2008 if the bailout hadn't occurred or what would have happened if we had defaulted instead of increasing the debt ceiling. Bottom line is we've been band-aiding ourselves along during a time where things could have been as bad as they were during the Great Depression. The fact that we have band-aided it along is almost a miracle in itself

                        I still find it amazing that the greatest country and economy on earth almost accomplished completely destroying its own banking and auto industries. Two industries where most of the world thinks America first.
                        **NOTE: The misleading post above was brought to you by Reynold's Wrap and American Steeples, makers of Crosses.

                        Originally Posted by dropthatpuck-Scooby's a lost cause.
                        Originally Posted by First Time, Long Time-Always knew you were nothing but a troll.

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                        • Re: Obama XXIV: Forward ... pause ... rewind ... play

                          You can always tell when conservatives are about to lose an election when they start with the "we're doomed" talk.

                          Look, far from being insurmountable, the fiscal problems of this country are easily solvable. Put taxes back at Clinton rates, cut back military from ending wars and other savings, means test Medicare, get US off of foreign energy sources and we're there. Now one would come back and argue "there's no political will" to do so, I beg to differ. If Obama is re-elected, a gun is now placed to Congress' collective noggins. It now demands they engage in a grand bargain of tax hikes, military cuts, and domestic spending cuts. Obama suffers no negative consquences because he's never running for office again. Itch McConnell and The Boner don't have that luxury nor do their members. Look for a deal to be passed during the lame duck session to start righting the ship.

                          Beyond that, what's left to accomplish in an Obama 2nd term? Really from a legislative standpoint its immigration reform and energy independence (assuming budget deal gets done this year). That's not a lot to ask after issues such as health care are already decided.
                          Legally drunk???? If its "legal", what's the ------- problem?!? - George Carlin

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                          • Re: Obama XXIV: Forward ... pause ... rewind ... play

                            Originally posted by ScoobyDoo View Post
                            Well, if we want cuts to happen then maybe we need to let them happen? The fiscal cliff is no scarier to me then what could have happened in 2008 if the bailout hadn't occurred or what would have happened if we had defaulted instead of increasing the debt ceiling. Bottom line is we've been band-aiding ourselves along during a time where things could have been as bad as they were during the Great Depression. The fact that we have band-aided it along is almost a miracle in itself

                            I still find it amazing that the greatest country and economy on earth almost accomplished completely destroying its own banking and auto industries. Two industries where most of the world thinks America first.
                            We've largely borrowed against the future in order to feel a lot less pain in the last 4-5 years. We can't keep borrowing against the future forever. When that stops, it's going to be mightly painful, and the longer we wait, the more painful it will be. The fiscal cliff they're talking about if the cuts happen at the end of this year is child's play compared to what needs to be done to put the federal fiscal house in order.
                            Originally posted by Priceless
                            Good to see you're so reasonable.
                            Originally posted by ScoobyDoo
                            Very well, said.
                            Originally posted by Rover
                            A fair assessment Bob.

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                            • Re: Obama XXIV: Forward ... pause ... rewind ... play

                              Originally posted by Rover View Post
                              You can always tell when conservatives are about to lose an election when they start with the "we're doomed" talk.

                              Look, far from being insurmountable, the fiscal problems of this country are easily solvable. Put taxes back at Clinton rates, cut back military from ending wars and other savings, means test Medicare, get US off of foreign energy sources and we're there. Now one would come back and argue "there's no political will" to do so, I beg to differ. If Obama is re-elected, a gun is now placed to Congress' collective noggins. It now demands they engage in a grand bargain of tax hikes, military cuts, and domestic spending cuts. Obama suffers no negative consquences because he's never running for office again. Itch McConnell and The Boner don't have that luxury nor do their members. Look for a deal to be passed during the lame duck session to start righting the ship.

                              Beyond that, what's left to accomplish in an Obama 2nd term? Really from a legislative standpoint its immigration reform and energy independence (assuming budget deal gets done this year). That's not a lot to ask after issues such as health care are already decided.
                              I give my we're doomed schpeel regularly, you should know that. I just get more ammunition all the time as the numbers get worse.
                              Originally posted by Priceless
                              Good to see you're so reasonable.
                              Originally posted by ScoobyDoo
                              Very well, said.
                              Originally posted by Rover
                              A fair assessment Bob.

                              Comment


                              • Re: Obama XXIV: Forward ... pause ... rewind ... play

                                Originally posted by Rover View Post
                                Beyond that, what's left to accomplish in an Obama 2nd term? Really from a legislative standpoint its immigration reform and energy independence (assuming budget deal gets done this year). That's not a lot to ask after issues such as health care are already decided.
                                but when does 'THE ONE WE'VE BEEN WAITING FOR' lower the oceans back down and drop the temps and all that stuff he promised before?

                                no, but I hope you're right about the compromise about to be made.
                                Huskies are very intelligent and trainable. Huskies make an excellent jogging companion, as long as it is not too hot. Grooming is minimal; bathing is normally unnecessary.
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