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Obama XXIV: Forward ... pause ... rewind ... play

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  • Re: Obama XXIV: Forward ... pause ... rewind ... play

    Originally posted by FlagDUDE08 View Post
    I already tried to explain to you why the stock is awful, but you just don't seem to listen, do you?

    Reminder to self: Never try to explain the stock market to a communist.
    I don't have insight into the tiny make believe world that exists only in your mind Flag. What I do know is that a company about to go out of business doesn't trade over 20 bucks a share and 7 times earnings. One would think a person with a basic understanding of markets would know this.
    Legally drunk???? If its "legal", what's the ------- problem?!? - George Carlin

    Ever notice how everybody who drives slower than you is an idiot, and everybody who drives faster is a maniac? - George Carlin

    "I've never seen so much reason and bullsh*t contained in ONE MAN."

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    • Re: Obama XXIV: Forward ... pause ... rewind ... play

      Originally posted by Rover View Post
      I don't have insight into the tiny make believe world that exists only in your mind Flag. What I do know is that a company about to go out of business doesn't trade over 20 bucks a share and 7 times earnings. One would think a person with a basic understanding of markets would know this.
      If it isn't supposed to trade there, then the 233-day SMA shouldn't be going steadily down over the past 6 months. I never said they were about to go out of business. I said there's a reason that, despite fairly heavy volume (6-month average estimate probably around 8 million shares per day or so), there isn't an onslaught of buyers which would drive up the price.

      Here, a pretty picture explaining this: http://finance.yahoo.com/echarts?s=G...rce=undefined;

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      • Re: Obama XXIV: Forward ... pause ... rewind ... play

        Originally posted by FlagDUDE08 View Post
        If it isn't supposed to trade there, then the 233-day SMA shouldn't be going steadily down over the past 6 months. I never said they were about to go out of business. I said there's a reason that, despite fairly heavy volume (6-month average estimate probably around 8 million shares per day or so), there isn't an onslaught of buyers which would drive up the price.

        Here, a pretty picture explaining this: http://finance.yahoo.com/echarts?s=G...rce=undefined;
        This. P/E of 7.5 is very low - investors have very little long-term confidence that GM will be profitable, otherwise more would be buying in and driving the P/E back up to 15 or 20 where a healthy company belongs.
        If you don't change the world today, how can it be any better tomorrow?

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        • Re: Obama XXIV: Forward ... pause ... rewind ... play

          Originally posted by LynahFan View Post
          This. P/E of 7.5 is very low - investors have very little long-term confidence that GM will be profitable, otherwise more would be buying in and driving the P/E back up to 15 or 20 where a healthy company belongs.
          I learned a very valuable lesson about GM back in 2008-2009. I was one of the unfortunates who had a bunch of their 8% bonds always feeling that as GM goes, so goes the nation and that they could not go bankrupt ever. I watched as the bonds became worthless-yet GM was somehow still able to pay their laid off workers and reopen closed plants. I had always felt bondholders were at the higher level of investors and would be somewhat likely to be paid off in the event of a failure yet received nothing for the bonds. During the deep sell off of the 2008-2009 years on paper I got creamed-but have made back virtually everything with the notable exception of anything on the GM investments. Those that choose to invest in their future now-I can only say, good luck to you. Personally i would rather take a chance on a bunch of PowerBall tickets than ever invest in that company again. It goes without saying that I would never again purchase one of their vehicles. Just my 2¢ based on my own anecdotal experience with the company.
          Take the shortest distance to the puck and arrive in ill humor

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          • Re: Obama XXIV: Forward ... pause ... rewind ... play

            Originally posted by DrDemento View Post
            I learned a very valuable lesson about GM back in 2008-2009. I was one of the unfortunates who had a bunch of their 8% bonds always feeling that as GM goes, so goes the nation and that they could not go bankrupt ever. I watched as the bonds became worthless-yet GM was somehow still able to pay their laid off workers and reopen closed plants. I had always felt bondholders were at the higher level of investors and would be somewhat likely to be paid off in the event of a failure yet received nothing for the bonds. During the deep sell off of the 2008-2009 years on paper I got creamed-but have made back virtually everything with the notable exception of anything on the GM investments. Those that choose to invest in their future now-I can only say, good luck to you. Personally i would rather take a chance on a bunch of PowerBall tickets than ever invest in that company again. It goes without saying that I would never again purchase one of their vehicles. Just my 2¢ based on my own anecdotal experience with the company.
            The government did some serious fiddling with the bankruptcy laws with the GM bailout/restructuring. One wonders could they do it again with a different industry / company?
            CCT '77 & '78
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            ”Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both.”
            - Benjamin Franklin

            Banned from the St. Lawrence University Facebook page - March 2016 (But I got better).

            I want to live forever. So far, so good.

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            • Re: Obama XXIV: Forward ... pause ... rewind ... play

              Originally posted by Rover View Post
              I don't mind a freewheeling discussion that shows two different opinions. I give the mag credit for that.

              Geezer, did somebody driving a GM car run over your dog? "I know somebody who said...." = baseless tripe. If nobody is buying GM cars, why are they the best selling worldwide? A point you refuse to address becuase it doesn't fit your narrative. Have your imaginary friend show up with some proof of these accusations please. Otherwise I will post about my friend in the know who claims that geezer has 6 wives but only two of them are human and the others are farm animals. I have no proof of this, but hey, that doesn't seem to matter anymore.
              Great post Rover, except where you missed or ignored every single relevant point. WHOOOOOSH!

              It doesn't matter to me if you open your ears or not, it just makes you look even more stupid if you pretend facts don't exist simply because you choose to ignore them.
              Huskies are very intelligent and trainable. Huskies make an excellent jogging companion, as long as it is not too hot. Grooming is minimal; bathing is normally unnecessary.
              USCHO Fantasy Baseball Champion 2011 2013 2015

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              • Re: Obama XXIV: Forward ... pause ... rewind ... play

                Originally posted by LynahFan View Post
                This. P/E of 7.5 is very low - investors have very little long-term confidence that GM will be profitable, otherwise more would be buying in and driving the P/E back up to 15 or 20 where a healthy company belongs.
                15 to 20 is a little high a standard for a non tech company but compare them to non-bailout auto company Ford, which is trading 2 times earnings. I'm not sure anybody in the auto industry is trading gangbusters right now. After all, auto purchases are something you can delay or live without unlike food or medicine.

                geezer, I'm posting facts and you're posting opinion. GM's earnings are a fact of public record. If they are cooking the books thanks to laws such as Sarbanes-Oxley their executives will be charged personally with criminal behavior and jailed. If they are getting taxpayer refunds you've yet to show any proof of this beyond some conversation you say you've had with an unnamed insider. Furthermore your notion that govt spending is propping them up leaves no explanation for their success in the Chinese, Latin American or North American (ex US) markets. Everybody's getting slammed in Europe so we'll leave that alone. Yet I'm not understanding the situation? Okaaay...and make sure you remember Dolly the Sheep's anniversary present this weekend.
                Legally drunk???? If its "legal", what's the ------- problem?!? - George Carlin

                Ever notice how everybody who drives slower than you is an idiot, and everybody who drives faster is a maniac? - George Carlin

                "I've never seen so much reason and bullsh*t contained in ONE MAN."

                Comment


                • Re: Obama XXIV: Forward ... pause ... rewind ... play

                  Originally posted by Rover View Post
                  15 to 20 is a little high a standard for a non tech company...
                  False. Let's take a look at some good companies like Eli Lilly, Campbell's, American Eagle Outfitters (all where I take long position), none of which are tech companies. I see P/E of anywhere from 12 to 22. These companies are doing quite well, and are at decent point to make some trades, especially after posting good news.

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                  • Re: Obama XXIV: Forward ... pause ... rewind ... play

                    Originally posted by geezer View Post
                    Great post Rover, except where you missed or ignored every single relevant point. WHOOOOOSH!

                    It doesn't matter to me if you open your ears or not, it just makes you look even more stupid if you pretend facts don't exist simply because you choose to ignore them.
                    You aren't used to this? It's SOP for Rover.
                    Originally posted by Priceless
                    Good to see you're so reasonable.
                    Originally posted by ScoobyDoo
                    Very well, said.
                    Originally posted by Rover
                    A fair assessment Bob.

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                    • Re: Obama XXIV: Forward ... pause ... rewind ... play

                      Originally posted by FlagDUDE08 View Post
                      False. Let's take a look at some good companies like Eli Lilly, Campbell's, American Eagle Outfitters (all where I take long position), none of which are tech companies. I see P/E of anywhere from 12 to 22. These companies are doing quite well, and are at decent point to make some trades, especially after posting good news.
                      The S&P itself trades at about 15 times earnings on average and even Apple is at 15 times earnings, so to expect 20 times is a lot. Especially for a mature company in a lower growth industry. Auto companies themselves in fact trade lower as evidenced by Honda (9 times), Tata (5 times), and Ford (2 times). Granted Toyota is trading a lot higher but they seem to be the exception to the industry norm. I don't see how GM's standard should be to outdo Apple in investor's expectations.
                      Legally drunk???? If its "legal", what's the ------- problem?!? - George Carlin

                      Ever notice how everybody who drives slower than you is an idiot, and everybody who drives faster is a maniac? - George Carlin

                      "I've never seen so much reason and bullsh*t contained in ONE MAN."

                      Comment


                      • Re: Obama XXIV: Forward ... pause ... rewind ... play

                        Originally posted by Rover View Post
                        The S&P itself trades at about 15 times earnings on average and even Apple is at 15 times earnings, so to expect 20 times is a lot. Especially for a mature company in a lower growth industry. Auto companies themselves in fact trade lower as evidenced by Honda (9 times), Tata (5 times), and Ford (2 times). Granted Toyota is trading a lot higher but they seem to be the exception to the industry norm. I don't see how GM's standard should be to outdo Apple in investor's expectations.
                        So now, you're going from "GM's too cheap" to "GM's not trading high because it's the industry's fault"? You're sounding like the CEO of an under-performing company. I'm still waiting for you to put your money where your mouth is and buy some GM stock. I don't care if it's only 20 shares, put your name on it!

                        Comment


                        • Re: Obama XXIV: Forward ... pause ... rewind ... play

                          Originally posted by Rover View Post
                          The S&P itself trades at about 15 times earnings on average and even Apple is at 15 times earnings, so to expect 20 times is a lot. Especially for a mature company in a lower growth industry. Auto companies themselves in fact trade lower as evidenced by Honda (9 times), Tata (5 times), and Ford (2 times). Granted Toyota is trading a lot higher but they seem to be the exception to the industry norm. I don't see how GM's standard should be to outdo Apple in investor's expectations.
                          15 (the S&P average) would be fine with me. You're correct that investors feel that the entire auto industry is suspect - call me crazy, but to me that seems like an argument AGAINST dumping more good taxpayer money after bad. To each his own, I guess.
                          If you don't change the world today, how can it be any better tomorrow?

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                          • Re: Obama XXIV: Forward ... pause ... rewind ... play

                            Originally posted by FlagDUDE08 View Post
                            So now, you're going from "GM's too cheap" to "GM's not trading high because it's the industry's fault"? You're sounding like the CEO of an under-performing company. I'm still waiting for you to put your money where your mouth is and buy some GM stock. I don't care if it's only 20 shares, put your name on it!
                            Flag, I already bought Ford stock. The difference for me is that it was trading cheaper (2 times earnings vs 7 times).

                            Since you seem to have trouble keeping up, I don't expect GM (or Ford) to trade like a tech company. I do expect it to have some growth in the near term as general auto industry concerns fade away. Regardless, we're getting away from the point which is GM is a viable going concern which makes the bailout a success.

                            Lynah, no need to put any more money into the company. Needed restructuring happened. Not sure who's talking about another bailout except for one discredited opinion writer in Forbes and geezer's anonymous friend.
                            Legally drunk???? If its "legal", what's the ------- problem?!? - George Carlin

                            Ever notice how everybody who drives slower than you is an idiot, and everybody who drives faster is a maniac? - George Carlin

                            "I've never seen so much reason and bullsh*t contained in ONE MAN."

                            Comment


                            • Re: Obama XXIV: Forward ... pause ... rewind ... play

                              Originally posted by Rover View Post
                              Lynah, no need to put any more money into the company. Needed restructuring happened. Not sure who's talking about another bailout except for one discredited opinion writer in Forbes and geezer's anonymous friend.
                              You're right - I jumped the gun. My bad. I'll wait until the next time GM unions cry wolf over an impending bankruptcy to see what your opinion is then.
                              If you don't change the world today, how can it be any better tomorrow?

                              Comment


                              • Re: Obama XXIV: Forward ... pause ... rewind ... play

                                Originally posted by Rover View Post
                                Flag, I already bought Ford stock. The difference for me is that it was trading cheaper (2 times earnings vs 7 times).

                                Since you seem to have trouble keeping up, I don't expect GM (or Ford) to trade like a tech company. I do expect it to have some growth in the near term as general auto industry concerns fade away. Regardless, we're getting away from the point which is GM is a viable going concern which makes the bailout a success.

                                Lynah, no need to put any more money into the company. Needed restructuring happened. Not sure who's talking about another bailout except for one discredited opinion writer in Forbes and geezer's anonymous friend.
                                Ford was good in 2009 because it didn't take the bailout. Also a consistent decline in the 233-day average across the past 6 months (something which Toyota doesn't have; theirs is fairly steady), and a significant spike in net income at the end of Q4 2011 (a little suspect to me). Debt's steady, not all that decent on annual cash flow; I can understand the low price.

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