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Obama XXIV: Forward ... pause ... rewind ... play

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  • Originally posted by Kepler View Post
    Or we could pay our bills. But that would be "theft."

    It isn't tax and spend that caused the debt. It's borrow and spend.
    I'd reverse that to read spend and borrow.
    CCT '77 & '78
    4 kids
    5 grandsons (BCA 7/09, CJA 5/14, JDL 8/14, JFL 6/16, PJL 7/18)
    1 granddaughter (EML 4/18)

    ”Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both.”
    - Benjamin Franklin

    Banned from the St. Lawrence University Facebook page - March 2016 (But I got better).

    I want to live forever. So far, so good.

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    • Re: Obama XXIV: Forward ... pause ... rewind ... play

      Originally posted by Kepler View Post
      I'm trying to change course before impact.

      Seriously, though. There are two conceivable workable strategies (given the watering down that naturally occurs during political debate):

      Crazy Liberal: keep all our programs and tax at 50%.

      Crazy Conservative: cut all our current programs, abolish the income tax, and return to funding a small militia via excise taxes.

      The one thing we know will absolutely not work:

      Saint Ronny - Demon Dubya: keep all our programs to not make people mad, add more to appease special interests, and cut taxes as a kickback for campaign bribes from wealthy invest- er, I mean "patriots."
      There's also a fallacy that must be included, and it's pretty much applicable to both sides: It must be a short term solution. Anything long-term won't work, most of the time because people aren't willing to wait for it.

      Taking a look at previous budgets, we are now up to the same revenue levels that we saw in 2006. It looks like the long pole in the tent is the amount of spending, and the last time I checked, it wasn't Dubya who did that. In fact, at 2007, the deficit level was the same as 2002, and it hasn't been any lower. Basically, the country hasn't recovered from the attack yet.

      Here is what I would propose to wring in the budget, my version of a balanced budget amendment:

      1. The allocated expenditures for the United States federal budget shall be no greater than:
      a. The actual revenue amount collected by the United States Treasury in the previous year, OR;
      b. The actual expenditure amount for the United States federal budget in the previous year.
      2. Congress shall have the power to enforce this article by appropriate legislation.

      Comment


      • Re: Obama XXIV: Forward ... pause ... rewind ... play

        Originally posted by Kepler View Post
        I'm trying to change course before impact.

        Seriously, though. There are two conceivable workable strategies (given the watering down that naturally occurs during political debate):

        Crazy Liberal: keep all our programs and tax at 50%.

        Crazy Conservative: cut all our current programs, abolish the income tax, and return to funding a small militia via excise taxes.

        The one thing we know will absolutely not work:

        Saint Ronny - Demon Dubya: keep all our programs to not make people mad, add more to appease special interests, and cut taxes as a kickback for campaign bribes from wealthy invest- er, I mean "patriots."
        You were doing ok there for awhile. Of course the liberals don't want to just keep existing programs, but expand them whenever possible. Obama is proposing increased spending on something it seems like every day.

        And the last part, I could write up something like that for the liberals, but you know the drill by now.
        Originally posted by Priceless
        Good to see you're so reasonable.
        Originally posted by ScoobyDoo
        Very well, said.
        Originally posted by Rover
        A fair assessment Bob.

        Comment


        • Re: Obama XXIV: Forward ... pause ... rewind ... play

          Originally posted by Kepler View Post
          Or we could pay our bills. But that would be "theft."

          It isn't tax and spend that caused the debt. It's borrow and spend.
          We cant tax enough to pay this crap off without some serious cuts to go alongside it. Neither side will make the cuts necessary so lets not pretend they we can blame the left or the right. Until each side cuts their pet programs we are screwed.

          And if you think one side is worse than the other you need to wake up and smell the feces on your face. (because your head is fully up your ***)

          The next thing people need to start realizing is that the housing crisis didnt cause this...this moment was inevitable going back a lot farther than that. Blaming it on the bubble bursting is like blaming getting lung cancer on the last cigarette you smoked.
          "It's as if the Drumpf Administration is made up of the worst and unfunny parts of the Cleveland Browns, Washington Generals, and the alien Mon-Stars from Space Jam."
          -aparch

          "Scenes in "Empire Strikes Back" that take place on the tundra planet Hoth were shot on the present-day site of Ralph Engelstad Arena."
          -INCH

          Of course I'm a fan of the Vikings. A sick and demented Masochist of a fan, but a fan none the less.
          -ScoobyDoo 12/17/2007

          Comment


          • Re: Obama XXIV: Forward ... pause ... rewind ... play

            Originally posted by Bob Gray View Post
            And the last part (last part misunderstood).
            The point is: Spend and tax might work. Don't spend and don't tax might work. The one thing that will not work is spend and don't tax. So let's not do that anymore.
            Cornell University
            National Champion 1967, 1970
            ECAC Champion 1967, 1968, 1969, 1970, 1973, 1980, 1986, 1996, 1997, 2003, 2005, 2010
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            • Re: Obama XXIV: Forward ... pause ... rewind ... play

              Sure, when things get back to workable you are right. At this point tax and cut is the only thing that is going to save us.
              "It's as if the Drumpf Administration is made up of the worst and unfunny parts of the Cleveland Browns, Washington Generals, and the alien Mon-Stars from Space Jam."
              -aparch

              "Scenes in "Empire Strikes Back" that take place on the tundra planet Hoth were shot on the present-day site of Ralph Engelstad Arena."
              -INCH

              Of course I'm a fan of the Vikings. A sick and demented Masochist of a fan, but a fan none the less.
              -ScoobyDoo 12/17/2007

              Comment


              • Re: Obama XXIV: Forward ... pause ... rewind ... play

                Originally posted by Handyman View Post
                Sure, when things get back to workable you are right. At this point tax and cut is the only thing that is going to save us.
                So I can count on your vote for the Dems? (Because the GOP has signed in blood to never, ever, ever tax their biggest donor-, er, patriots.)

                Obama should have backed Simpson-Bowles from the very beginning. Some variation of it will eventually be adopted, sooner if Dems pick up seats, later after we rack up even more debt if Republicans pick up seats. That's where this has been headed since we took the wrong fiscal fork 32 years ago.
                Cornell University
                National Champion 1967, 1970
                ECAC Champion 1967, 1968, 1969, 1970, 1973, 1980, 1986, 1996, 1997, 2003, 2005, 2010
                Ivy League Champion 1966, 1967, 1968, 1969, 1970, 1971, 1972, 1973, 1977, 1978, 1983, 1984, 1985, 1996, 1997, 2002, 2003, 2004, 2005, 2012, 2014, 2018, 2019, 2020

                Comment


                • Re: Obama XXIV: Forward ... pause ... rewind ... play

                  Originally posted by Kepler View Post
                  The point is: Spend and tax might work. Don't spend and don't tax might work. The one thing that will not work is spend and don't tax. So let's not do that anymore.
                  None of it works. Because when we spend and tax, we spend more than we tax. When we spend and don't tax, we maybe spend less, but we still spend more and tax less. Under every scenario we spend more than we tax, and somehow those two need to come together. I understand the partisan angle you're working, but it takes away from the message when it's given a partisan flavor.

                  I've said it before and I'll say it again. I'd vote for a Democrat in a heart beat if I thought they'd seriously address the budget deficit.
                  Originally posted by Priceless
                  Good to see you're so reasonable.
                  Originally posted by ScoobyDoo
                  Very well, said.
                  Originally posted by Rover
                  A fair assessment Bob.

                  Comment


                  • Re: Obama XXIV: Forward ... pause ... rewind ... play

                    Originally posted by Kepler View Post
                    So I can count on your vote for the Dems? (Because the GOP has signed in blood to never, ever, ever tax their biggest donor-, er, patriots.)

                    Obama should have backed Simpson-Bowles from the very beginning. Some variation of it will eventually be adopted, sooner if Dems pick up seats, later after we rack up even more debt if Republicans pick up seats. That's where this has been headed since we took the wrong fiscal fork 32 years ago.
                    You know what's funny? You had a mandate in 2009-2010, and you still didn't raise taxes. The Dems encouraged it.

                    How about we dump both parties and start fresh?

                    Comment


                    • Re: Obama XXIV: Forward ... pause ... rewind ... play

                      Originally posted by Bob Gray View Post
                      I understand the partisan angle you're working, but it takes away from the message when it's given a partisan flavor.
                      Yeah, that's my agenda, alright. I know if I can hypnotize a couple more people on the USCHO Forum I can sway this election...
                      Cornell University
                      National Champion 1967, 1970
                      ECAC Champion 1967, 1968, 1969, 1970, 1973, 1980, 1986, 1996, 1997, 2003, 2005, 2010
                      Ivy League Champion 1966, 1967, 1968, 1969, 1970, 1971, 1972, 1973, 1977, 1978, 1983, 1984, 1985, 1996, 1997, 2002, 2003, 2004, 2005, 2012, 2014, 2018, 2019, 2020

                      Comment


                      • Re: Obama XXIV: Forward ... pause ... rewind ... play

                        Originally posted by FlagDUDE08 View Post
                        You know what's funny? You had a mandate in 2009-2010, and you still didn't raise taxes. The Dems encouraged it.

                        How about we dump both parties and start fresh?
                        when you are trying to keep from falling into a depression/recession you don't raise taxes. even they know that.
                        a legend and an out of work bum look a lot alike, daddy.

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                        • Re: Obama XXIV: Forward ... pause ... rewind ... play

                          Originally posted by mookie1995 View Post
                          when you are trying to keep from falling into a depression/recession you don't raise taxes. even they know that.
                          Excuses, excuses. They're also Keynesians who don't understand the definition of "stagflation", which we are currently in.

                          Comment


                          • Re: Obama XXIV: Forward ... pause ... rewind ... play

                            Originally posted by Kepler View Post
                            ....
                            The one thing we know will absolutely not work:

                            Saint Ronny - Demon Dubya: keep all our programs to keep tip oneal & tom daschle onboard and add more to appease them, and cut taxes as a kickback for campaign bribes from wealthy invest- er, I mean "patriots" to all of them.
                            .
                            a legend and an out of work bum look a lot alike, daddy.

                            Comment


                            • Re: Obama XXIV: Forward ... pause ... rewind ... play

                              Originally posted by Kepler View Post
                              So I can count on your vote for the Dems? (Because the GOP has signed in blood to never, ever, ever tax their biggest donor-, er, patriots.)

                              Obama should have backed Simpson-Bowles from the very beginning. Some variation of it will eventually be adopted, sooner if Dems pick up seats, later after we rack up even more debt if Republicans pick up seats. That's where this has been headed since we took the wrong fiscal fork 32 years ago.
                              Hahahaha...no. The day I believe the Dems will tax and NOT spend is the day I am too drunk to function in society permanently. That you think the Dems are going to fix this or that they have the policies to do so proves your lack of any objectivity on the subject. Considering you went to Cornell (and love to pontificate and show us how smart you supposedly are) you would think you would know how big a folly that line of thinking will get you.

                              I dont trust anyone to fix this, collapse is the only way out now. Time for both sides to pay the piper.
                              "It's as if the Drumpf Administration is made up of the worst and unfunny parts of the Cleveland Browns, Washington Generals, and the alien Mon-Stars from Space Jam."
                              -aparch

                              "Scenes in "Empire Strikes Back" that take place on the tundra planet Hoth were shot on the present-day site of Ralph Engelstad Arena."
                              -INCH

                              Of course I'm a fan of the Vikings. A sick and demented Masochist of a fan, but a fan none the less.
                              -ScoobyDoo 12/17/2007

                              Comment


                              • Re: Obama XXIV: Forward ... pause ... rewind ... play

                                Originally posted by manurespreader View Post
                                I totally disagree, except that if nothing were done down the road when inflation rears it's ugly head, then yeah, but that is not a realistic approach as the fed will do something. So I would agree, absent the fed, but since the fed is there and run by reasonably able people, I think you're all wet.Though sure we are going to have to face the deficit sooner rather than later, but that's a different subject really.
                                Yes, but the "somthing" the fed will have to do will be "quantitative ease-a-geddon," A.K.A. inflate our way out of debt. If you think that will be a walk in the park, then YOU are all wet.


                                No they are not false. Deficit spending does have some effect but the overall health of the economy is much bigger than the deficit. And that doesn't explain how when there was no deficit we were doing better, not worse, which would be the case under your assumptions.It's very easy though to grab on to certain shall we call them, popular phrases being put out by one special interest group or another, and support them even if they are gross simplifications and not really true.
                                Hogwash. Right now the deficit is around 8% of GDP. If you took away deficit spending, the economy would shrink faster than Alice on mushrooms. Imagine if 8% of companies (by revenue) shuttered their doors tomorrow - I think that would be a little more important than "some effect."
                                If you don't change the world today, how can it be any better tomorrow?

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