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Shooting at Sikh temple outside of Milwaukee.

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  • Re: Shooting at Sikh temple outside of Milwaukee.

    Originally posted by ExileOnDaytonStreet View Post
    I'm saying that the "guns don't kill people, people do" argument seems to imply that the gun didn't play a role in killing 6 and wounding others. That the same psycho would still do the same thing if he only had access to [insert other deadly weapon here]. I'm posing the question: if he only had access to a pipe bomb, or a drums of gas or a machete, do we still have 6 dead and more wounded? Would we have more or fewer casualties? How can we say the gun doesn't play a role if those numbers would change?
    I think it would change, depending on what his alternative weapon is. If he goes to a bomb, there could easily be many more casualties, if he has a machete, it could go either way. If the guy is attacking old women and children with a machete, I don't see it being much different than a gun.
    Having a clear conscience just means you have a bad memory or you had a boring weekend.

    RIP - Kirby

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    • Re: Shooting at Sikh temple outside of Milwaukee.

      Originally posted by ExileOnDaytonStreet View Post
      I'd believe that.

      All the same, lets take that at face value: we know why a madman would prefer a gun, but why would we prefer for that madman to have a gun instead of whatever he would drift to if guns were too hard/much of a hassle to get?
      The argument isn't getting anywhere because everyone's focused on the madman. Perhaps we should look at the other factors involved in this scenario. Instead of trying to create a disadvantage for the aggressor, why not create an advantage for the victims?

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      • Re: Shooting at Sikh temple outside of Milwaukee.

        Originally posted by FlagDUDE08 View Post
        The argument isn't getting anywhere because everyone's focused on the madman. Perhaps we should look at the other factors involved in this scenario. Instead of trying to create a disadvantage for the aggressor, why not create an advantage for the victims?
        Free body armor for all!
        If you don't change the world today, how can it be any better tomorrow?

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        • Re: Shooting at Sikh temple outside of Milwaukee.

          Originally posted by FlagDUDE08 View Post
          The argument isn't getting anywhere because everyone's focused on the madman. Perhaps we should look at the other factors involved in this scenario. Instead of trying to create a disadvantage for the aggressor, why not create an advantage for the victims?
          What kind of advantage? Manditory combat training for all citizens about the age of 18? Short of that, I don't know how to give the victims an advantage, since people seem dead set against the idea that arming people with concealed weapons is good.
          Having a clear conscience just means you have a bad memory or you had a boring weekend.

          RIP - Kirby

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          • Originally posted by FlagDUDE08 View Post
            The argument isn't getting anywhere because everyone's focused on the madman. Perhaps we should look at the other factors involved in this scenario. Instead of trying to create a disadvantage for the aggressor, why not create an advantage for the victims?
            Concealed carry? It's tough enough for trained professionals to handle these kind of situations. And that's in situations where it's obvious who's the aggressor and who's the victim. Throw in a bunch of amateur vigilantes into the mix, and I don't know how much safer things become. Especially in a situation like Aurora. What are the odds of an amateur being able to handle THAT situation?

            I suppose you have value in a criminal never knowing who's packing, but beyond that you're likely taking a wild scenario and making it even crazier, Wild West style.
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            • Re: Shooting at Sikh temple outside of Milwaukee.

              Originally posted by ExileOnDaytonStreet View Post
              Concealed carry? It's tough enough for trained professionals to handle these kind of situations. And that's in situations where it's obvious who's the aggressor and who's the victim. Throw in a bunch of amateur vigilantes into the mix, and I don't know how much safer things become. Especially in a situation like Aurora. What are the odds of an amateur being able to handle THAT situation?
              I see concealed weapons having a place, there are definitely certain situations where they can be an advantage, but like you, I'm not sure the Aurora incident is one of them.
              Having a clear conscience just means you have a bad memory or you had a boring weekend.

              RIP - Kirby

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              • Re: Shooting at Sikh temple outside of Milwaukee.

                Originally posted by ExileOnDaytonStreet View Post
                I suppose you have value in a criminal never knowing who's packing, but beyond that you're likely taking a wild scenario and making it even crazier, Wild West style.
                If all criminals know that a majority of people are packing, I think you'll see a reduction in certain crimes, such as b&e's, muggings, convenience store robberies, car-jackings, etc. but not when you're talking about a crazy person going on a rampage. They don't care if someone is packing or not.
                Having a clear conscience just means you have a bad memory or you had a boring weekend.

                RIP - Kirby

                Comment


                • Re: Shooting at Sikh temple outside of Milwaukee.

                  Originally posted by ExileOnDaytonStreet View Post
                  Concealed carry? It's tough enough for trained professionals to handle these kind of situations. And that's in situations where it's obvious who's the aggressor and who's the victim. Throw in a bunch of amateur vigilantes into the mix, and I don't know how much safer things become. Especially in a situation like Aurora. What are the odds of an amateur being able to handle THAT situation?

                  I suppose you have value in a criminal never knowing who's packing, but beyond that you're likely taking a wild scenario and making it even crazier, Wild West style.
                  One big thing to remember is that when you attempt to take the weapons out of the hands of aggressors, you're also taking them out of the hands of victims. The vast majority of massacres have taken place in locations where weapons are prohibited, and therefore the aggressors' job is easier.

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                  • Re: Shooting at Sikh temple outside of Milwaukee.

                    Originally posted by NCAA watcher
                    I thought we had determine a bit ago that the best preventative means is to ship the two living members of his band, all surrounding skin-head groups and the gun dealer to Guantanimo for indefinite detention and torture to find out the network that is supplying this religious terrorist.
                    This isn't a joking matter. And it wasn't very funny anyway. Try harder next time.
                    Having a clear conscience just means you have a bad memory or you had a boring weekend.

                    RIP - Kirby

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                    • Re: Shooting at Sikh temple outside of Milwaukee.

                      Originally posted by NCAA watcher
                      I thought we had determine a bit ago that the best preventative means is to ship the two living members of his band, all surrounding skin-head groups and the gun dealer to Guantanimo for indefinite detention and torture to find out the network that is supplying this religious terrorist.
                      Who do you think is running things - Bush? The new and improved method (now with 53% more hope!) is just to hit them with a drone strike without ever even charging them with a crime.
                      If you don't change the world today, how can it be any better tomorrow?

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                      • Re: Shooting at Sikh temple outside of Milwaukee.

                        Originally posted by bronconick View Post
                        Any scenario reaching that stage will involve a fractured military involved on both sides, like every other civil war.
                        Originally posted by bigblue_dl View Post
                        Even if we all buy whatever weapons we can legally buy now, there is no way we can match up against the military.
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                        When the giraffes start building radio telescopes they can join too.
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                        • Re: Shooting at Sikh temple outside of Milwaukee.

                          Originally posted by dxmnkd316 View Post
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                          That is all.
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                          • Re: Shooting at Sikh temple outside of Milwaukee.

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                            Code:
                            As of 9/21/10:         As of 9/13/10:
                            College Hockey 6       College Football 0
                            BTHC 4                 WCHA FC:  1
                            Originally posted by SanTropez
                            May your paint thinner run dry and the fleas of a thousand camels infest your dead deer.
                            Originally posted by bigblue_dl
                            I don't even know how to classify magic vagina smoke babies..
                            Originally posted by Kepler
                            When the giraffes start building radio telescopes they can join too.
                            He's probably going to be a superstar but that man has more baggage than North West

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                            • Re: Shooting at Sikh temple outside of Milwaukee.

                              Originally posted by Brenthoven View Post
                              I'm siding with you, ya dolt. bbdl wasn't baiting anyone. There was no bait.
                              He responded to 5mm not bbdl.

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