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**huskyfan** · 08-13-2012, 09:18 AM

Originally posted by bronconick View Post

Because you clearly don't understand the electoral college?

Then his people think he is in trouble, chasing after 6 votes.

Have read rumors his internals are bad, but Iowa???

**ScoobyDoo** · 08-13-2012, 09:20 AM

Re: Elections 2012 -- Carrion My Wayward Son!

Originally posted by huskyfan View Post

Then his people think he is in trouble, chasing after 6 votes.

Have read rumors his internals are bad, but Iowa???

Iowa is a battleground state. Why wouldn't he spend some time there? And he's spending it there in the dog days of August. I fail to see the issue.

**Bob Gray** · 08-13-2012, 09:36 AM

Re: Elections 2012 -- Carrion My Wayward Son!

Ryan's budget proposal isn't perfect, for sure, but I'm glad he was picked, as hopefully it'll push for more substantive discussion in the campaign about the nation's financial/budget crisis. Don't let the perfect be the enemy of the good.

**bronconick** · 08-13-2012, 09:52 AM

Re: Elections 2012 -- Carrion My Wayward Son!

Originally posted by huskyfan View Post

Then his people think he is in trouble, chasing after 6 votes.

Have read rumors his internals are bad, but Iowa???

It's common knowledge that Obama is going to win less states than in 2008. After redistricting and handing Indiana and North Carolina back to Romney, it's 332-206. It doesn't matter how or where he holds onto 62 more votes as long as he does. This isn't 2000 or 2004 where Florida or Ohio alone will tip the scales. Romney will be in Iowa or some other small state soon enough as well.

**5mn_Major** · 08-13-2012, 10:19 AM

Re: Elections 2012 -- Carrion My Wayward Son!

Originally posted by huskyfan View Post

Obama is spending three days in Iowa? Tell me how that is not a sign of serious trouble in his reelection campaign?

Because the Obama campaign thinks Ryan has a better chance to carry Iowa than Ryan's home state of Wisconsin. And they're probably right.

Originally posted by Bob Gray View Post

Ryan's budget proposal isn't perfect.

Sounds like you're standards for perfection are fairly low.

**geezer** · 08-13-2012, 10:29 AM

Re: Elections 2012 -- Carrion My Wayward Son!

Originally posted by 5mn_Major View Post

Sounds like you're standards for perfection are fairly low.

read the part you quoted once more. He said that Ryan's proposal ISN'T perfect.
But he's one of the few (the only?) politicians willing to admit that we're all screwed if we don't get serious about dialing back spending to rational levels. That's important.

**Bob Gray** · 08-13-2012, 10:38 AM

Re: Elections 2012 -- Carrion My Wayward Son!

Originally posted by geezer View Post

read the part you quoted once more. He said that Ryan's proposal ISN'T perfect.
But he's one of the few (the only?) politicians willing to admit that we're all screwed if we don't get serious about dialing back spending to rational levels. That's important.

The biggest problem with Ryan's conceptual budget is that it doesn't cut defense. But, if people stop and realize that his budget would never be implemented in a vacuum, I'm sure he realized that the Dems main area where they'd want to cut is defense, so there'd certainly be give and take on that to reach a final budget. Comments like 5mn's just remind me how little the American electorate is engaged in or seems to even care that our nation is racing towards fiscal disaster. I predict Ryan will be absolutely crucified the next few months for actually putting forward a substantive (if flawed) proposal to address our nation's fiscal problems.

**ScoobyDoo** · 08-13-2012, 10:43 AM

Re: Elections 2012 -- Carrion My Wayward Son!

Originally posted by geezer View Post

read the part you quoted once more. He said that Ryan's proposal ISN'T perfect.
But he's one of the few (the only?) politicians willing to admit that we're all screwed if we don't get serious about dialing back spending to rational levels. That's important.

It's perfect for the Baby Boomers. They get a pass.

**5mn_Major** · 08-13-2012, 10:44 AM

Re: Elections 2012 -- Carrion My Wayward Son!

Don't get me wrong as I said before...

I think Ryan is a smart pick. He is likeable and gets some attention back to the ticket at a time when Romney needed it. His plan is biased and this may be sensed by many in the middle. The team will be at risk with many aspects of the budget plan to the middle...but its exactly the right agenda item to bring to the forefront. The GOP is correct in wanting to raise the deficit or 'fiscal' conservative side of its platform (rather than trojan horse social conservatism and its military counterpart which typically results in the majority of GOP attention and which most moderates can't stand).

I just don't think Ryan helped give the ticket any critically needed experience beyond the budget (which Romney probably had the tools for anyways)...and not in the areas of actual public policy, the economy and foriegn affairs.

**5mn_Major** · 08-13-2012, 10:48 AM

Re: Elections 2012 -- Carrion My Wayward Son!

Originally posted by Bob Gray View Post

Comments like 5mn's just remind me how little the American electorate is engaged in or seems to even care that our nation is racing towards fiscal disaster. I predict Ryan will be absolutely crucified the next few months for actually putting forward a substantive (if flawed) proposal to address our nation's fiscal problems.

Bob read my previous post. Fiscal responsibility is the issue for the GOP...and is needed across the board. As the previous 12 years have shown, the only time the GOP is interesed in fiscal responsibility is when they are either out of power...or they put the burden on the bottom half of Americans and infrastructure like education and science both of which are needed to build the country's future strength.

**Bob Gray** · 08-13-2012, 10:49 AM

Re: Elections 2012 -- Carrion My Wayward Son!

Originally posted by ScoobyDoo View Post

It's perfect for the Baby Boomers. They get a pass.

So, at the very least, it's no worse than the status quo.

**Bob Gray** · 08-13-2012, 10:51 AM

Re: Elections 2012 -- Carrion My Wayward Son!

Originally posted by 5mn_Major View Post

Bob read my previous post. Fiscal responsibility is the issue for the GOP...and is needed across the board. As the previous 12 years have shown, the only time the GOP is interesed in fiscal responsibility is when they are either out of power...or they put the burden on the bottom half of Americans and infrastructure like education and science both of which are needed to build the country's future strength.

Which, even if true, is more effort than your party makes toward fiscal responsibility. So, tell me, is fiscal responsibility at all important to you in how our nation is run and how we pick our leaders?

**bronconick** · 08-13-2012, 10:52 AM

Re: Elections 2012 -- Carrion My Wayward Son!

Given the panic and dumbassery surrounding the "super committee" automatic spending cuts for next year, it's pretty impossible for me to view Ryan's plan as an opening gambit where negotiations would lead to something that everyone could swallow.

**Craig P.** · 08-13-2012, 10:59 AM

Re: Elections 2012 -- Carrion My Wayward Son!

Originally posted by geezer View Post

But [Ryan is] one of the few (the only?) politicians willing to admit that we're all screwed if we don't get serious about dialing back spending to rational levels. That's important.

There are a lot of Republicans who are happy to say that we're screwed if we don't dial spending back. There are two issues there. First is that they're in a mad rush to do it right now, immediately, regardless of the economic consequences (to the credit of some, they subscribe to the Austrian school, so they come by their position honestly, even if I think it's terribly wrong-headed). Second is that their willingness to make admissions only extends as far as dialing back spending. They remain steadfastly unwilling to admit that we're all screwed if we don't return taxation to rational levels (or we'll have to return to a 1900-style social contract, which is great for the robber baron social darwinists but bad for just about everyone else).

**ScoobyDoo** · 08-13-2012, 11:01 AM

Re: Elections 2012 -- Carrion My Wayward Son!

Originally posted by Craig P. View Post

There are a lot of Republicans who are happy to say that we're screwed if we don't dial spending back. There are two issues there. First is that they're in a mad rush to do it right now, immediately, regardless of the economic consequences (to the credit of some, they subscribe to the Austrian school, so they come by their position honestly, even if I think it's terribly wrong-headed). Second is that their willingness to make admissions only extends as far as dialing back spending. They remain steadfastly unwilling to admit that we're all screwed if we don't return taxation to rational levels (or we'll have to return to a 1900-style social contract, which is great for the robber baron social darwinists but bad for just about everyone else).

Where were they when Bush was running the system into the ground?

Paul Ryan is a fine example. He rubber stamped EVERYTHING that Bush did. And we're to believe that he's fiscally sane? No, I don't think so.