Elections 2012 -- Carrion My Wayward Son!

[joecct]

Re: Elections 2012 -- Carrion My Wayward Son!

True or propaganda??

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/...very-industry/

[Foxton]

Re: Elections 2012 -- Carrion My Wayward Son!

True or propaganda??

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/...very-industry/

First sentence goes ultra derp, so likely propaganda without having to read any further.

[FadeToBlack&Gold]

Re: Elections 2012 -- Carrion My Wayward Son!

I like to think that occasionally guys like Nate Silver go around the internet, see some comment like that and just start weeping at the fact that all of the stats, programs and polls really come down to who you'd want to sit next to at a pub.

Given how we created our national anthem, this was probably inevitable anyway.

I voted for Obama, but I'd rather drink with McCain. Not only would he not smoke, but he probably doesn't hold his pinky out like an elitist arsehole when drinking.

So clearly I'm in the minority on your theory.

True or propaganda??

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/...very-industry/

Isn't the Times editorial section known to be the conservative yin to the Post's liberal yang?

[bronconick]

Re: Elections 2012 -- Carrion My Wayward Son!

True or propaganda??

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/...very-industry/

Moonies own the Washington Times.

[Old Pio]

Re: Elections 2012 -- Carrion My Wayward Son!

He has a long ways to go to catch all of Obama's screw ups. Btw, when Obama announced Biden as his vp choice, he actually announced him as the next President of the United States.
http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politics...ama-misspea-1/

When His Gaffeness does it, it's not a gaffe. Try to catch up. I think my all time favorite was when Carter referred to the former Minnesota senator, Vice President and presidential candidate as: "Hubert Horatio Hornblower." Man, you could smell the smoke. Famed radio personality Harry Von Zell once introduced the president as: "Hoobert Heaver."

[Old Pio]

Re: Elections 2012 -- Carrion My Wayward Son!

Moonies own the Washington Times.

Want to buy some flowers?

[walrus]

Re: Elections 2012 -- Carrion My Wayward Son!

True or propaganda??

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/...very-industry/

The comments are way better than the article

[FreshFish]

Re: Elections 2012 -- Carrion My Wayward Son!

That's 9 straight elections won by the guy most people would "prefer to have a beer with." It's not the whole story, but it sure is a big part of it.

Well, if I were to pick one of the two now to go out with, would I prefer to be involved in a conversation or a lecture? to spend time with someone who seems interested in learning new things or to spend time with someone who already is convinced he knows everything?

[FreshFish]

Re: Elections 2012 -- Carrion My Wayward Son!

When my dad went to public school they didn't pray (he split time between public and parochial school). Heck, back then, God wasn't even mentioned in the Pledge of Allegiance. And that didn't seem to hurt anyone either.

Edit: frankly, geezer is right about this. While I think it was silly to add God into the Pledge, and I would like to see it taken back out, it certainly isn't a big issue.

What about our courtrooms, and our currency? I haven't heard much agitation to redo the back of all our paper money....

[5mn_Major]

Re: Elections 2012 -- Carrion My Wayward Son!

True or propaganda??

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/...very-industry/

Just another clear example how the times knows nothing.

First, the whole premise of the argument is based on a false assumption...the thought that more bailouts are coming. The auto and financial bailouts were specific actions to stop a fragile economy from crashing and there's no evidence that another bailout will occur under the administration.

Second, the guy clearly knows nothing about economics (this coming from a complete novice). Today, GM, Chrysler, all the autoparts subsidiaries that support them and dealerships pay taxes. Millions of employees throughout the industry pay taxes. Retailers, shops and businesses that benefit from those employees spending money pay taxes. The employees of those shops pay taxes. All that is government revenue. Say the bailout doesn't happen. GM, Chrysler, the autoparts subsiaries, dealerships, supporting business communities and all their employees go from productive tax payers to the unemployed in need of benefits and retraining...this changing the industry from a tax revenue cash cow to a major drain on society. Not surprising the times ideologu...err...analyst doesn't see that.

The only time this happens is in the face of a crisis. I'll bet anyone their net worth that it doesn't happen again under the administration if O is reelected.

[FreshFish]

Re: Elections 2012 -- Carrion My Wayward Son!

so far most of the comments about Romney's choice of Ryan for running mate view it through the lens of political calculation. At heart, Romney is a business person involved in politics; he's not a career politician.

When viewed from the lens of business, the Ryan choice fits pretty well, especially when you go beyond the election into actual governing:
> Romney is the turn-around expert; Ryan is the budget guru: big picture + details
> Romney can concentrate on government reorganization; Ryan can concentrate on day-to-day budget.
> Romney can remain "Presidential" and appear totally above the fray; Ryan as "attack dog" is somewhat amusing because his personal style is so folksy and congenial.
> Romney is a bit wooden on the stump, though he definitely is improving; Ryan's 'aw shucks' style really engages his audience and can be quite effective
> Romney and Ryan have a positive message of something meaningfully greater than themselves that they stand "for." Obama and Biden still have not crafted a positive message (raise taxes on the rich and increase government spending: is that really they best they can do?)

I loved Romney's latest line: "I want to increase Americans' after-tax incomes." that is a brilliant way to frame the issue, put it in practical terms on how it concretely affects people in their daily lives.

They know they are going to be subject to disparagement and vilification anyway; now they can say, "you'l probably hear the Democrats say [whatever], that's to be expected." they can tell people what the attacks will be before the attacks even occur!

[5mn_Major]

Re: Elections 2012 -- Carrion My Wayward Son!

so far most of the comments about Romney's choice of Ryan for running mate view it through the lens of political calculation. At heart, Romney is a business person involved in politics; he's not a career politician.

When viewed from the lens of business, the Ryan choice fits pretty well, especially when you go beyond the election into actual governing:
> Romney is the turn-around expert; Ryan is the budget guru: big picture + details
> Romney can concentrate on government reorganization; Ryan can concentrate on day-to-day budget.
> Romney can remain "Presidential" and appear totally above the fray; Ryan as "attack dog" is somewhat amusing because his personal style is so folksy and congenial.
> Romney is a bit wooden on the stump, though he definitely is improving; Ryan's 'aw shucks' style really engages his audience and can be quite effective
> Romney and Ryan have a positive message of something meaningfully greater than themselves that they stand "for." Obama and Biden still have not crafted a positive message (raise taxes on the rich and increase government spending: is that really they best they can do?)

I loved Romney's latest line: "I want to increase Americans' after-tax incomes." that is a brilliant way to frame the issue, put it in practical terms on how it concretely affects people in their daily lives.

They know they are going to be subject to disparagement and vilification anyway; now they can say, "you'l probably hear the Democrats say [whatever], that's to be expected." they can tell people what the attacks will be before the attacks even occur!

Post with some thought.

I think Ryan is a pretty good pick for Romney. Some think its risky...I think its safe. Ryan is a sharp guy, who is likeable (he appears to folks in the midwest). At the surface, it looks good. He was at risk of picking a Palin in Portman (IMO) and passed the test. Not a perfect pick, but I don't see that leftish pundit enthusiam on this pick is meritted.

Having said that, Ryan is NOT a good fit for Romney to govern. Yes Ryan is the numbers guy and Romney is the big picture guy. But they are extremely narrowly focused on both financials and numbers (outside of his critical role on the budget, Ryan has largely just represented a smallish district in WI). There is no evidence that either of these guys are an expert on improving the economy (which is quite different than knowing how to run a business or plan a budget and is lost on most people). There is no evidence that either are public policy experts...good at solving societal challenges (education and the like). And quite obviously there is no evidence of any knowledge of anything that requires a passport.

Smart team...but probably with probably the most narrow experience of any ticket running for president we've seen in our lifetimes.

[Foxton]

Re: Elections 2012 -- Carrion My Wayward Son!

They know they are going to be subject to disparagement and vilification anyway; now they can say, "you'l probably hear the Democrats say [whatever], that's to be expected." they can tell people what the attacks will be before the attacks even occur!

No part of that is a good thing.

[FreshFish]

Re: Elections 2012 -- Carrion My Wayward Son!

Post with some thought....

... Ryan is NOT a good fit for Romney to govern. Yes Ryan is the numbers guy and Romney is the big picture guy. But they are extremely narrowly focused on both financials and numbers (outside of his critical role on the budget, Ryan has largely just represented a smallish district in WI). There is no evidence that either of these guys are an expert on improving the economy (which is quite different than knowing how to run a business or plan a budget and is lost on most people). There is no evidence that either are public policy experts...good at solving societal challenges (education and the like). And quite obviously there is no evidence of any knowledge of anything that requires a passport.

Smart team...but probably with probably the most narrow experience of any ticket running for president we've seen in our lifetimes.

Hmm....the latest version of Medicare reform is the Ryan (R) - Wyden (D) proposal....you did know that, right?

Ryan is a clear thinker and would IMHO be a persuasive bridge-builder due to his existing contacts in the House. Put Ryan to work with Congressional leaders of both parties and you'll get a budget that members of both parties will vote for. Reid / Democrat-controlled Senate have not passed a budget in three years, despite having a majority.

I'm not worried about Romney's lack of expertise in anything. We've already seen him pick really smart, talented assistants in his other endeavors. He seems to me to have a good sense of what he knows and what he doesn't know, and like any other effective business person, he knows that it doesn't pay to have any illusions on that score as well. If he doesn't know something, he''ll simply admit it and then go hire an expert. What else would you expect a rich guy to do but to go out and hire the best servants that money can buy?!!

He knows that works because he's done it several times. He knows that Ryan is better at certain things than he is, that these things are important to the campaign, and so he brings in Ryan to do it. President Romney would do more of the same.


I would love to see what a turn-around specialist, someone who buys failing companies and re-organizes them so that they use their existing resources better to find success, would do with the federal government? Consolidate 15 cabinet departments into six? shift federal regulation over to conferences of state officials?* business geeks would have lots of fun with that.


One last off-hand observation, probably of little significance overall.....it appears to me that Ryan and Romney genuinely like each other; if you watch their timing and body language when they are together they seem to have a natural affinity...I can almost see them doing stand-up comedy together.






* have to build this idea out more later.

[Slap Shot]

Re: Elections 2012 -- Carrion My Wayward Son!

So wait - are you supposed to be the independent or is that Flag?

Well, if I were to pick one of the two now to go out with, would I prefer to be involved in a conversation or a lecture? to spend time with someone who seems interested in learning new things or to spend time with someone who already is convinced he knows everything?

I don't care how you vote whatsoever, but have you listened to Romney speak? Ever? The guy could bore paint but even worse he won't actually talk about anything. Here's the entire conversation:

You: So Mitt, would like a beer?
Mitt: I'm not going to comment on that at this time
You: Ok, have you had a chance to look at the menu?
Mitt: That's really a subject that we'll get into after the election
You: I sure hope the NHL doesn't lockout
Mitt: We'll look at that Fresh as we reach that but I believe they will self-deport

I loved Romney's latest line: "I want to increase Americans' after-tax incomes." that is a brilliant way to frame the issue, put it in practical terms on how it concretely affects people in their daily lives.

Really Mitt? How you going to do that? Is that before or after all the deductions you specify but plan to eliminate? Are you going to eliminate the mortgage deduction? But Mitt won't answer that question or any other. In fact he's going to go the entire election process without specifically answering a single question.