Elections 2012 -- Carrion My Wayward Son!

[Old Pio]

Re: Elections 2012 -- Carrion My Wayward Son!

Did his campaign seriously set up so that it leaks after midnight Saturday AM eastern time? It's the VP choice, not your tax returns, Mitt.

Or his transcripts.

[Handyman]

Re: Elections 2012 -- Carrion My Wayward Son!

Wow methinks that the screwup of his staffer in talking about RomneyCare scared/****ed off enough people in the party to convince Mitt to take Ryan...otherwise I have no idea what he is thinking. Ryan may shore up the base but he will push away the middle and independents in droves.

I dont get his campaign at all...Obama is beatable and yet they are literally doing nothing that will help Mitt beat him. The people running his campaign almost seem like the 1919 Black Sox

That is why I am voting:

*****http://images.sodahead.com/polls/000602943/polls_157234_none_of_the_above_0431_393772_answer_ 103_xlarge.gif******

[5mn_Major]

Re: Elections 2012 -- Carrion My Wayward Son!

In my direct anectodal personal experience, the more familiarity people have with "guns" at an early age, the more respectfully they treat "guns." One of the best things we could do would be to have every five-year old in the country fire a gun: the noise and recoil would be so daunting, it would leave a profound impression. To me it makes very good practical sense to have the use, cleaning, care, and storage of guns be part of every elementary school curriculum throughout the United States.

We could also teach every five year old to drink JD shots. Might teach them a respect of alcohol.

First of all, this would help bolster our national defense: if we have to cut back on military spending, we need to improve our military preparedness in other areas. I think having every high school student undergo military training would be a great unifying element our society sorely needs. How important are our political differences if an implacable foe is dedicated to our annihilation? We need to band together to survive as a nation.

Ironically, the more prepared we are collectively to defend ourselves, the less likely it becomes that our enemies will want to engage in an all-out trial of strength in a "survive-or-perish" contest.

So the most positive benefit you highlight is that it prepares us for something that will never happen? Not seeing the benefit there.

Said elsewhere:
> to a "gun" owner, typically gun = hunting rifle = utilitarian value added.
> to an urban "gun" control advocate, typically gun = pistol = violent crime

The two sides can never really agree until we re-define the term "gun."

True, but the problem is we can and do and it has never mattered.

The important thing here is that cities don't care what happens in rural areas. They really don't. And they don't care about hunting rifles. That's never been a discussion topic anywhere. They just don't want everyone carrying handguns on their own streets. So they try to change the laws for themselves. They know what's in their best interests. Then the NRA and supporters feel compelled to come and stop the cities from living in the type of society they want for themselves.

If cities don't want guns...why not let them legislate their own city limits the way they want?

[5mn_Major]

Re: Elections 2012 -- Carrion My Wayward Son!

Per ontheissues.org, Ryan's views:

Abortion is woman's right - strongly opposes
Require hiring more women & minorities - opposes
Same-sex domestic partnership benefits - opposes
Teacher-led prayer in public schools - strongly favors
Absolute right to gun ownership - strongly favors
More federal funding for health coverage - strongly opposes
Privatize Social Security - strongly supports
Replace coal & oil with alternatives - strongly opposes
Drug use is immoral: enforce laws against it - favors
Allow churches to provide welfare services - strongly favors
Make taxes more progressive - strongly opposes
Illegal immigrants earn citizenship - favors
Support & expand free trade - strongly favors
Expand the armed forces - favors
Stricter limits on political campaign funds - favors
The Patriot Act harms civil liberties - strongly opposes
US out of Iraq & Afghanistan - strongly opposes

This puts him squarely with most typical conservative views (with minor exceptions on immigration and the less visible campaign funds issues). He is very conservative by most measures and more liberatarian than Romney (which may not be a big surprise for many due to Romney's past positions in Mass).

[walrus]

Re: Elections 2012 -- Carrion My Wayward Son!

Per ontheissues.org, Ryan's views:

Abortion is woman's right - strongly opposes
Require hiring more women & minorities - opposes
Same-sex domestic partnership benefits - opposes
Teacher-led prayer in public schools - strongly favors
Absolute right to gun ownership - strongly favors
More federal funding for health coverage - strongly opposes
Privatize Social Security - strongly supports
Replace coal & oil with alternatives - strongly opposes
Drug use is immoral: enforce laws against it - favors
Allow churches to provide welfare services - strongly favors
Make taxes more progressive - strongly opposes
Illegal immigrants earn citizenship - favors
Support & expand free trade - strongly favors
Expand the armed forces - favors
Stricter limits on political campaign funds - favors
The Patriot Act harms civil liberties - strongly opposes
US out of Iraq & Afghanistan - strongly opposes

This puts him squarely with most typical conservative views (with minor exceptions on immigration and the less visible campaign funds issues). He is very conservative by most measures and more liberatarian than Romney (which may not be a big surprise for many due to Romney's past positions in Mass).

If he is more libertarian than Romney? he sure isn't a libertarian. Not sure how accurate that list is but there a few things on there that make me want to puke, like prayer in school for starters. Domestic partnership benefits, out of Afghanistan. I might like his on paper fiscal conservatism other than that, Gary Johnson for President

[joecct]

If he is more libertarian than Romney? he sure isn't a libertarian. Not sure how accurate that list is but there a few things on there that make me want to puke, like prayer in school for starters. Domestic partnership benefits, out of Afghanistan. I might like his on paper fiscal conservatism other than that, Gary Johnson for President

Up until 1960 we prayed in public schools. Heck, even Romper Room said a prayer "God is great. God is good. Let us thank Him for our food. Amen."

That sure rattled the foundations of the Republic.

[Rimbaud]

Re: Elections 2012 -- Carrion My Wayward Son!

Did his campaign seriously set up so that it leaks after midnight Saturday AM eastern time? It's the VP choice, not your tax returns, Mitt.

It leaks for when the West Coast is still up because us crazy freaks won't vote for him so we don't care. Then he can officially announce it at 830 Eastern on a Saturday morning, you know, when 'normal' Americans are awake.

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: Elections 2012 -- Carrion My Wayward Son!

Unless I heard it wrong, Romney just announced Ryan as the next President of the United States? Did the ticket flip?

Yep, I was right. Romney screwed up. Again.

[Kepler]

Re: Elections 2012 -- Carrion My Wayward Son!

I don't know if it will help Romney, but it helps the discussion. Ryan has sincere and substantive ideas and policy proposals. I don't agree with most of them, but elections are supposed to be about comparing philosophies, and now we have that.

The debates should be re-ordered: have Obama vs Ryan on issues and ideas and Romney vs Biden on platitudes and gaffes.

Also: Andrea Mitchell has begun to look like a zombie.

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: Elections 2012 -- Carrion My Wayward Son!

Paul Ryan voted for EVERY budget exploding policy during the Bush administration. To call him a deficit hawk is poppycock.

[Kepler]

Re: Elections 2012 -- Carrion My Wayward Son!

Great trivia: for the first time in American history just one of the four nominees of the two major parties is a Protestant. Barack Obama.

[geezer]

Re: Elections 2012 -- Carrion My Wayward Son!

Per ontheissues.org, Ryan's views:

Teacher-led prayer in public schools - strongly favors

Don't laugh, but is this really an issue? I've never heard of it, unless it's code for saying God in the pledge which scares the crap out of the Foxtons but doesn't seem like that big a deal to real people. If it is an actual issue, someone ask Ryan if he still "strongly favors" in cases where the teacher is a Buddhist or Muslim.

[Kepler]

Re: Elections 2012 -- Carrion My Wayward Son!

Don't laugh, but is this really an issue?

In certain quarters you can still get war whoops for it. It's also one of the few remaining places where Catholic activists and Evangelical activists agree, so the RNC trots it out to prime the donations.

The list of positions doesn't exactly make him a maverick:

Abortion is woman's right - strongly opposes: ORTHODOX REPUBLICAN
Require hiring more women & minorities - opposes: ORTHODOX REPUBLICAN
Same-sex domestic partnership benefits - opposes: ORTHODOX REPUBLICAN
Teacher-led prayer in public schools - strongly favors: ORTHODOX REPUBLICAN
Absolute right to gun ownership - strongly favors: ORTHODOX REPUBLICAN
More federal funding for health coverage - strongly opposes: ORTHODOX REPUBLICAN
Privatize Social Security - strongly supports: ORTHODOX REPUBLICAN
Replace coal & oil with alternatives - strongly opposes: ORTHODOX REPUBLICAN
Drug use is immoral: enforce laws against it - favors: ORTHODOX REPUBLICAN
Allow churches to provide welfare services - strongly favors: ORTHODOX REPUBLICAN
Make taxes more progressive - strongly opposes: ORTHODOX REPUBLICAN
Illegal immigrants earn citizenship - favors: HERESY
Support & expand free trade - strongly favors: ORTHODOX REPUBLICAN
Expand the armed forces - favors: ORTHODOX REPUBLICAN
Stricter limits on political campaign funds - favors: HERESY
The Patriot Act harms civil liberties - strongly opposes: ORTHODOX REPUBLICAN
US out of Iraq & Afghanistan - strongly opposes: ORTHODOX REPUBLICAN

15/17 = 88% ORTHODOX

Hardly a guy who thinks for himself.

[Kepler]

Re: Elections 2012 -- Carrion My Wayward Son!

Ezra Klein has his typically smart comments here. The "10 points" are so dead on, here they are:

- - - -

1. Both Democrats and conservatives are going to get the exact debate they wanted. I’m not so sure about Republicans.

2. This is an admission of fear from the Romney campaign. You don’t make a risky pick like Paul Ryan if you think the fundamentals favor your candidate. You make a risky pick like Paul Ryan if you think the fundamentals don’t favor your candidate. And, right now, the numbers don’t look good for Romney: Obama leads in the Real Clear Politics average of polls by more than four percentage points — his largest lead since April.

3. Related point: Two of the top contenders in the Romney campaign’s veepstakes were Ohio’s Rob Portman and Florida’s Marco Rubio. Given that there’s fairly good evidence that vice presidential candidates are worth at least a point or two in their home states, the Romney campaign’s decision to pick Ryan is evidence that they feel they need to change the national dynamic, not just pick off a battleground state.

4. Romney’s original intention was to make the 2012 election a referendum on President Obama’s management of the economy. Ryan makes it a choice between two competing plans for deficit reduction. This election increasingly resembles the Obama campaign’s strategy rather than the Romney campaign’s strategy.

5. It’s worth recalling how Ryan became a semi-household name. It wasn’t a Republican strategy to put him forward. As Ryan Lizza recounts in his New Yorker profile of Ryan, it was a Democratic strategy to put Ryan forward. Ryan, he writes, “was caught between the demands of the Republican leaders, who wanted nothing to do with his Roadmap, and his own belief that the Party had to offer a sweeping alternative vision to Obama’s. Ryan soon had an unlikely ally, in Obama himself.” While Republicans were trying to keep Ryan quiet, the Obama administration was trying to make him famous. They saw his plans as the clearest distillation of the GOP’s governing philosophy — and they thought it would drive voters towards the Democrats. We’ll know in November whether that was a genius strategy or an epic miscalculation.

6. Consider the case for Romney until today: He’s a relatively moderate businessman running because his experience in the private-sector gives him crucial insight into how to manage the economy. Now consider Ryan: He’s worked in politics his entire life, beginning as an aide to Sen. Bob Kasten, then working for Sen. Sam Brownback and as a speechwriter to Rep. Jack Kemp. He’s known as a relatively ideological politician who has put forward a detailed policy plan to remake the federal government. It’s a rather different message about what’s important. And how does Romney say the problem with Barack Obama is that he’s “never spent a day in the private sector” and then put Ryan a heartbeat away from the presidency?

7. Ryan upends Romney’s whole strategy. Until now, Romney’s play has been very simple: Don’t get specific. In picking Ryan, he has yoked himself to each and every one of Ryan’s specifics. And some of those specifics are quite…surprising. For instance: Ryan has told the Congressional Budget Office that his budget will bring all federal spending outside Medicare, Medicaid and Social Security to 3.75 percent of GDP by 2050. That means defense, infrastructure, education, food safety, basic research, and food stamps — to name just a few — will be less than four percent of GDP in 2050. To get a sense for how unrealistic that is, Congress has never permitted defense spending to fall below three percent of GDP, and Romney has pledged that he’ll never let defense spending fall beneath four percent of GDP. It will be interesting to hear him explain away the difference.

8. It’s not just that Romney now has to defend Ryan’s budget. To some degree, that was always going to be true. What he will now have to defend is everything else Ryan has proposed. Ryan was, for instance, the key House backer of Social Security privatization. His bill, The Social Security Personal Savings Guarantee and Prosperity Act of 2005, was so aggressive that it was rejected by the Bush administration. Now it’s Romney’s bill to defend. In Florida.

9. Joe Biden has a lot of debate prep ahead of him. I’ve interviewed Ryan three times. Twice on health care (here and here), and once on economics (here). He’s very quick on his feet, and he’s got a lot of experience explaining his plans to skeptical audiences. He’s also a likable and, while I don’t know him very well personally, decent-seeming guy. He’s repeatedly won reelection in a moderate district. Democrats underestimate his political skills at their peril.

10. Everyone always says they want an election focused on the issues. For better or worse, we’ve got one.

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: Elections 2012 -- Carrion My Wayward Son!

Ryan lives in fantasy land. He voted for Iraq, and Prescription "D". Now he plans to pay for those by taking Medicare away from anyone 54 and younger. Baby Boomers get a walk.