Elections 2012 -- Carrion My Wayward Son!

[geezer]

Re: Elections 2012 -- Carrion My Wayward Son!

Do you guys have jobs or anything? Seriously I swear you all wake up and post before even brushing your teeth let alone getting any work done at your "jobs"

...asks the guy with 25,900 posts.

[FlagDUDE08]

Re: Elections 2012 -- Carrion My Wayward Son!

While mulling over my General Tso's, I realised something: The government promotes bad behaviour because their revenue stream depends on it.

[Kepler]

Re: Elections 2012 -- Carrion My Wayward Son!

I agree that the *impacts* of GM shutting down would have been huge. The part you're overstating is the probability that that would have happened without the bailout.

I see what you are saying, but I guess the question is whether we were willing to risk the worst outcome, particularly at a time when the whole rest of the economy looked like it was collapsing.

The bailout is one of those things whose success undermines its rationale. After the fact, when things stabilize, it looks unnecessary. I assume 50 years from now economists will still be fighting about whether it was necessary. About all we know for sure is that it worked.

[huskyfan]

I see what you are saying, but I guess the question is whether we were willing to risk the worst outcome, particularly at a time when the whole rest of the economy looked like it was collapsing.

The bailout is one of those things whose success undermines its rationale. After the fact, when things stabilize, it looks unnecessary. I assume 50 years from now economists will still be fighting about whether it was necessary. About all we know for sure is that it worked.

Seriously? You think it worked?

[LynahFan]

Re: Elections 2012 -- Carrion My Wayward Son!

Seriously? You think it worked?

Well, if you think that No Bailout = complete shutdown of GM and all its subsidiaries and suppliers, then you're starting from a pretty low bar. We'll never know what would have happened, so it will forever be a data vs. speculation comparison, which are never satisfying.

[Kepler]

Re: Elections 2012 -- Carrion My Wayward Son!

Well, if you think that No Bailout = complete shutdown of GM and all its subsidiaries and suppliers, then you're starting from a pretty low bar. We'll never know what would have happened, so it will forever be a data vs. speculation comparison, which are never satisfying.

Yes, that's my point.

It worked compared to catastrophic failure. The question of whether that would really have happened without it is now one for experts and ideologues to debate for as long as the sun continues to shine.

[bronconick]

Re: Elections 2012 -- Carrion My Wayward Son!

Well, if you think that No Bailout = complete shutdown of GM and all its subsidiaries and suppliers, then you're starting from a pretty low bar. We'll never know what would have happened, so it will forever be a data vs. speculation comparison, which are never satisfying.

IIRC, the auto bailout was during the height of the credit freeze, and if the government hadn't jumped in, the common belief was that the only thing that was going to happen was all the equipment and factories being sold for scrap metal because no one else was willing or even able to make that kind of financial gamble at that moment in time.

It could be my left wing tilted memory, but I thought I remember something like that being debated.

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: Elections 2012 -- Carrion My Wayward Son!

IIRC, the auto bailout was during the height of the credit freeze, and if the government hadn't jumped in, the common belief was that the only thing that was going to happen was all the equipment and factories being sold for scrap metal because no one else was willing or even able to make that kind of financial gamble at that moment in time.

It could be my left wing tilted memory, but I thought I remember something like that being debated.

You're 100% correct.

A managed bankruptcy would have been the end of GM.

[mookie1995]

While mulling over my General Tso's, I realised something: The government promotes bad behaviour because their revenue stream depends on it.

Nobody who spends $$$$$$ than they make gives a crap about their revenue stream

[5mn_Major]

Re: Elections 2012 -- Carrion My Wayward Son!

You're 100% correct.

A managed bankruptcy would have been the end of GM.

I'm really not that close to it to know if that's true.

But if it was true, then I'm confident that saving GM/Chrysler would have turn have turned out to be the right move based on the size of crater it would have left and it happening during the worst of the crisis.

[Kepler]

Re: Elections 2012 -- Carrion My Wayward Son!

Nobody who spends $$$$$$ than they make gives a crap about their revenue stream

If that's the criterion then we're talking about both parties.