Elections 2012 -- Carrion My Wayward Son!

[bronconick]

Re: Elections 2012 -- Carrion My Wayward Son!

Wow...

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[FreshFish]

Re: Elections 2012 -- Carrion My Wayward Son!

Ummm....what about the people who were denied insurance due to a pre-existing condition?

you mean the people who can already buy insurance through their state's high-risk pool? there are better ways to handle their situation than PPACA does, that's for sure!

[Bob Gray]

Re: Elections 2012 -- Carrion My Wayward Son!

We both agree on this. The only question is which side one feels will be a better steward of the economy. Both sides spend a ton on things I don't want, so that's a wash. The GOP's darker side, the Neocons, have conducted ruinously expensive foreign policy; the Dems were wusses not to oppose it from the start, but at least they wound it down as soon as it was politically possible. And the Dems at least attempt to pay as they go through taxation. The GOP just borrows forever.

If somebody has a better plan out there I'm all ears. At the moment, Obama's is the best we have.

He of the $1.2 trillion budget deficit for the most recent year. You can't be serious. At least the Republicans have rumblings about fiscal responsibility with people like Jeff Flake and the Tea Partiers. I can't think of a single Democrat that one could remotely associate the phrase "fiscal conservative" with.

[Kepler]

Re: Elections 2012 -- Carrion My Wayward Son!

what was "politically brilliant" 30 years ago is going to look stupid in the event of a loss this year because that will be 4 out of the last 6 elections, something that hasn't happened since LBJ was re-elected.

5 out of 6, were it not for brotherly love.

It doesn't matter how many elections you win, though, if the other side has planted land mines in the aisle so that anybody who crosses gets his legs blown off.

I don't see how your prediction of Obama getting more liberal policies through upon re-election comes to pass, unless you think that somehow the Democrats will take back the House and either 60 seats in the Senate or enact cloture reform. I just don't see the mechanics of it happening -- the rump of the GOP actually has proven its point that it can hold the entire country hostage. The Federalist Papers say that's very unlikely, but not impossible. I guess we should be grateful that we had a 220 year run until a minority finally had all the right tumblers fall in place to make it happen, but it has happened and absent some sort of huge governmental reform like we saw during the Progressive Era, there's no way out.

[Rover]

Re: Elections 2012 -- Carrion My Wayward Son!

5 out of 6, were it not for brotherly love.

It doesn't matter how many elections you win, though, if the other side has planted land mines in the aisle so that anybody who crosses gets his legs blown off.

I don't see how your prediction of Obama getting more liberal policies through upon re-election comes to pass, unless you think that somehow the Democrats will take back the House and either 60 seats in the Senate or enact cloture reform. I just don't see the mechanics of it happening -- the rump of the GOP actually has proven its point that it can hold the entire country hostage. The Federalist Papers say that's very unlikely, but not impossible. I guess we should be grateful that we had a 220 year run until a minority finally had all the right tumblers fall in place to make it happen, but it has happened and absent some sort of huge governmental reform like we saw during the Progressive Era, there's no way out.

Kep I didn't say anything about Obama getting more liberal policies through the Congress. He already accomplished that. I'm really not sure what more liberals are looking for. All he need do is keep implementing the liberal policies he's already passed into law but which need no further legislative action. On taxes he can sit on his hands and we revert back to 90's levels which we should have done all along. Also military gets reduced which also needs to happen. This goes into effect automatically. Again, nothing for The Boner and Itch McConnell to do about it.

As gay marriage is in the hands of the court, the only liberal priority I see out there that needs Congressional action to resolve is immigration. If the GOP gets slaughtered in the Hispanic vote the Karl Rove's of the world who has tremendous influence now due to his Super PAC are going to start pushing the fundies to make a deal. Alternative is to keep losing elections. Either one works for me!

[Old Pio]

Re: Elections 2012 -- Carrion My Wayward Son!

The guy donates money to organizations dedicated to denying people's civil rights. That really doesn't need any spin.

So the "right" to marry a yak is enshrined in our laws now? Who knew?

[Kepler]

Re: Elections 2012 -- Carrion My Wayward Son!

Then all that's happened is center-right is the new "liberal."

Certainly Obama (and the 2006 Congress) arrested the insane rush towards the far right that occurred in the prior years, but that rush put us way, way out on the rightmost limb. I see Obama as what Clinton was -- a way to stop the bleeding. But for a real revival of the country's basic values we will need somebody less of a fullback and more willing to throw the ball. Obama's fine, the country really needed a breather after the hell of 2001-2005. But to start fixing all the damage since 1981 there has to be a true liberal coming after him, as well as a responsible judiciary to stand up to the combined fists of big money, big military, and big cross.

This is a start, yes, but we're still way out of balance, in an environment where a pin dropping in Athens can send us toppling back into that radical right abyss.

[Old Pio]

Re: Elections 2012 -- Carrion My Wayward Son!

I got a plan. Send the Baby Boomers the bill for the money they owe us.

Deal. You refund to us all the money we spent building and paying for an educational system that left you so ignorant, despite our best efforts and investments.

[Old Pio]

Re: Elections 2012 -- Carrion My Wayward Son!

Remember the Clinton impeachment? Same thing: when they lose, they try to overturn the election by some other means.

At some point either (1) their own supporters are going to have to get sick of that, stop rationalizing it and demand the GOP grows up, or (2) they're going to have to lose so much support that the national party itself (well, their donors) decides to go another way. Otherwise there's no incentive for them to change. When they win elections they get their goodies, and when they lose elections they get to sabotage the country and then campaign on the other side "not getting things done." It may be morally reprehensible, but it's politically brilliant.

Along with continuing to cry about Willie Horton all these years later, another durable myth is "overturning the election" if the draft dodger had been removed from office. You have to know that's not true. If the pardoner-in-chief had been sent back to Arkansas, Al Gore would have become president, not Bob Dole. Al Gore, as I'm sure you know (since you know everything) is also the one who brought up Willie Horton in the first place. But the libstains have given him a pass. Imagine that.

[Bob Gray]

Re: Elections 2012 -- Carrion My Wayward Son!

So the "right" to marry a yak is enshrined in our laws now? Who knew?

Activist liberal judges. And everbody smart.

[Old Pio]

Re: Elections 2012 -- Carrion My Wayward Son!

Fiction is way too strong a word. Is law fiction? Is morality? Is the aesthetic of beauty? Is the concept of fairness? Those things are all the accumulation of people's ideas mediated through institutions, interpreters, and history. All scientific models and theories are like that. It may even be that time and causality are like that. Basically, those are anything that derives from a human understanding of the universe. Hardly bad company to be in.

We all have some sort of difference in our understanding of all those things, and all cultures have had differences. Just as with God. As long as you can do that and compromise with the guy next door who has a different view, you're participating in a democratic political system. There is nothing inherent in the concept of God, even in monotheistic exclusivity, that precludes that.

The problem we face now is a large sub-population who will not only refuse to compromise but will sabotage the working of democracy in order not to compromise. It doesn't matter what their reason is when they do that, they've taken themselves outside the system. Essentially, they're in rebellion, but it's a special kind of rebellion where they aren't sacrificing anything or putting themselves on the line, so they can keep it up forever because it costs them nothing.

On the other hand, it's non-violent (so far), so although it's disrupting solving national problems at least it isn't building up too high a body count.

If you listen very carefully, you can hear the sound of angels' wings flapping.

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: Elections 2012 -- Carrion My Wayward Son!

Deal. You refund to us all the money we spent building and paying for an educational system that left you so ignorant, despite our best efforts.

Deal. The education you gave us is worthless and about 1/10th of the money you owe us. So, we're paid in full. You just give us 90% of what you owe us then and we'll call it even.

[Old Pio]

Re: Elections 2012 -- Carrion My Wayward Son!

Deal. The education you gave us is worthless and about 1/10th of the money you owe us. So, we're paid in full. You just give us 90% of what you owe us then and we'll call it even.

It's the education you demanded. And it's not our fault if your head is impenetrable. Your numbers are suspect, but then, so are you.

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: Elections 2012 -- Carrion My Wayward Son!

It's the education you demanded. And it's not our fault if your head is impenetrable. Your numbers are suspect, but then, so are you.

My numbers aren't suspect. Your generation bankrupted the country and refuses to own up to it and pay the bill.

[bronconick]

Re: Elections 2012 -- Carrion My Wayward Son!

If you listen very carefully, you can hear the sound of angels' wings flapping.

That's the wind whistling between your ears.