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Rampage in Colorado Movie theater.

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  • Re: Rampage in Colorado Movie theater.

    I kind of hope so, because good luck finding "Guy who propped open door while answering cell phone" otherwise. You'd be stuck hoping that ****** #1 called ****** #2 and told him to leave and prop the door.
    "I went over the facts in my head, and admired how much uglier the situation had just become. Over the years I've learned that ignorance is more than just bliss. It's freaking orgasmic ecstasy".- Harry Dresden, Blood Rites


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    • Re: Rampage in Colorado Movie theater.

      Originally posted by dxmnkd316 View Post
      He bought a ticket, exited, and propped it open himself?
      Yep, that works too.

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      • Re: Rampage in Colorado Movie theater.

        Originally posted by bronconick View Post
        I kind of hope so, because good luck finding "Guy who propped open door while answering cell phone" otherwise. You'd be stuck hoping that ****** #1 called ****** #2 and told him to leave and prop the door.
        Only so many cell towers in the area and not that heavy of volume of calls at that time. I think that it would be more then possible to find the person.

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        • Re: Rampage in Colorado Movie theater.

          Insanity defense?

          Think it works?
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          • Re: Rampage in Colorado Movie theater.

            Originally posted by joecct View Post
            Insanity defense?

            Think it works?
            seems kind of obvious that it was premeditated to me...
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            • Re: Rampage in Colorado Movie theater.

              Originally posted by Shirtless Guy View Post
              seems kind of obvious that it was premeditated to me...
              Why would insanity preclude premeditation?
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              • Re: Rampage in Colorado Movie theater.

                Originally posted by Shirtless Guy View Post
                seems kind of obvious that it was premeditated to me...
                Insane people can plan things. See: Howard Hughes.
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                • Re: Rampage in Colorado Movie theater.

                  Fark has started calling the guy Sideshow Bob.

                  The idea is he wanted to be known as a supervillain, so let's start calling him the furthest thing from it.

                  I'm all for this.
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                  • Re: Rampage in Colorado Movie theater.

                    Originally posted by joecct View Post
                    Insanity defense?

                    Think it works?
                    No. Remember, "insanity" is a legal not a clinical term. UNO Fan or other lawyers can explain it, but the standard we apply derives from the "MacNaughton rule," which holds a suspect is deemed able to stand trial if he knew the consequences of his act. Again, a lawyer can explain it, but it's my understanding the insanity defense is rarely offered and even more rarely successful.

                    Remember that Olympic Centennial park bomber Eric Rudolph set several other bombs, including two at an abortion clinic. The second was intended to kill emergency personnel who had resonded to the first. Is that the act of a "sane" person?
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                    • Re: Rampage in Colorado Movie theater.

                      Originally posted by joecct View Post
                      Insanity defense?

                      Think it works?
                      Only if he can somehow prove he lost the ability to reason right from wrong. (this varies somewhat by state, but that's the simplest and most common variation - the next most common is having an inability to consider the consequences of his actions). Psychopaths generally know right from wrong, they just don't care.

                      He may also get a temporary reprieve if he isn't competent to stand trial. But that would simply delay the trial indefinitely, not cancel it. And that's fairly rare as well.

                      Originally posted by Carter
                      Why would insanity preclude premeditation?
                      It's not that it precludes premeditation, but it could preclude the legal responsibility for it. Again, this is varies by state, but the bar exam answer is that certain crimes are traditionally known as "specific intent" crimes while others (the vast majority, in fact) are "general intent crimes." Specific intent crimes require the state to prove you didn't just intend to shoot the gun, but intended to shoot the gun with the intent to do X. Diminished capacity, just as voluntary drunkenness or many psychological conditions which don't reach the level of legal insanity, often negate specific intent and morph the crimes for which you are culpable into a lesser included charge which only requires general intent.

                      1st degree murder is generally seen as a specific intent crime. 2nd degree murder is not. But good luck showing that in this case.
                      Last edited by unofan; 07-23-2012, 08:58 PM.

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                      • Re: Rampage in Colorado Movie theater.

                        Originally posted by unofan View Post
                        Only if he can somehow prove he lost the ability to reason right from wrong. (this varies somewhat by state, but that's the simplest and most common variation - the next most common is having an inability to consider the consequences of his actions)

                        He may also get a temporary reprieve if he isn't competent to stand trial. But that would simply delay the trial indefinitely, not cancel it. And that's fairly rare as well.


                        It's not that it precludes premeditation, but it could preclude the legal responsibility for it. Again, this is varies by state, but the bar exam answer is that certain crimes are traditionally known as "specific intent" crimes while others (the vast majority, in fact) are "general intent crimes." Specific intent crimes require the state to prove you didn't just intend to shoot the gun, but intended to shoot the gun with the intent to do X. Diminished capacity, just as voluntary drunkenness or many psychological conditions which don't reach the level of legal insanity, often negate specific intent and morph the crimes for which you are culpable into a lesser included charge which only requires general intent.

                        1st degree murder is generally seen as a specific intent crime. 2nd degree murder is not.
                        Maybe his lawyers could emulate Darrow with Leopold and Loeb and let the judge decide.
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                        • Re: Rampage in Colorado Movie theater.

                          Originally posted by unofan View Post
                          It's not that it precludes premeditation, but it could preclude the legal responsibility for it. Again, this is varies by state, but the bar exam answer is that certain crimes are traditionally known as "specific intent" crimes while others (the vast majority, in fact) are "general intent crimes." Specific intent crimes require the state to prove you didn't just intend to shoot the gun, but intended to shoot the gun with the intent to do X. Diminished capacity, just as voluntary drunkenness or many psychological conditions which don't reach the level of legal insanity, often negate specific intent and morph the crimes for which you are culpable into a lesser included charge which only requires general intent.

                          1st degree murder is generally seen as a specific intent crime. 2nd degree murder is not. But good luck showing that in this case.
                          Thank you, this was very interesting. (And informed, which probably is against Cafe rules.)
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                          • Re: Rampage in Colorado Movie theater.

                            Originally posted by Kepler View Post
                            Thank you, this was very interesting. (And informed, which probably is against Cafe rules.)
                            and full of typos..I know I was somewhat out of it due to the record heat and whatnot, but good lord was that horrendously written. Let me try again:

                            It's not that it precludes premeditation, but it could preclude the legal responsibility for it. Again, this varies by state, but the bar exam answer is that certain crimes are traditionally classified as "specific intent" crimes while others (the vast majority, in fact) are "general intent crimes." Specific intent crimes require the state to not only prove you intentionally or willfully shot the gun, but shot the gun with the intent to do X. Diminished capacity, such as voluntary drunkenness or many psychological conditions which don't reach the level of legal insanity, often negate specific intent and morph the crimes for which you are culpable into a lesser included charge which only requires general intent. So, for instance, attempted murder becomes assault with a deadly weapon. (side note: involuntary drunkenness, such as being slipped a roofie, or being a somnambulist generally negate all moral culpability for the crime. At least for bar exam purposes - and yes, the bar loves its somnambulist questions).

                            1st degree murder (sometimes known informally as "murder +") is often deemed a specific intent crime because the state has to prove not only murder but the additional aggravating factors (premeditation, depraved heart, cop killer, felony murder) even though the latter two aren't really "intent" related. 2nd degree murder (informally known as "common law murder" or just "murder") is always a general intent crime.

                            But good luck showing diminished capacity in this case. Generally speaking the longer the planning, the less likely you are to show you lacked the intent or were somehow hindred in your ability to determine right from wrong.
                            Last edited by unofan; 07-23-2012, 10:46 PM.

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                            • Re: Rampage in Colorado Movie theater.

                              Watching video of the shooter today in court made me think of one thing: A sleep-deprived chemical engineer trying to make it through his 3:00 lecture after staying up all night writing a Unit Ops report. The student's brain being completely drained after long stretches of intense thought. I speak from experience.

                              This kid looks like he's been up for a few nights straight after fully realizing the brevity of the situation and how his once promising life is over. It's like this completely blindsided him as if he expected a different result. For a fraction of a second while watching the video, I actually pitied him.
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                              • Re: Rampage in Colorado Movie theater.

                                If anything, I think he was drained by the whole situation itself, and not comprehending what is going to (probably) happen to him. Months of planning, his plan was a relative "success," plus all the questioning by the police, and lack of sleep.....
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