Elections 2012 -- Kull Wahad!!!

[unofan]

Re: Elections 2012 -- Kull Wahad!!!

Apparently the Dems are going to include a pro gay marriage plank in their platform.

Good or bad idea?

Good idea long term, probably bad for 2012. It's never bad to be on the side of expanded freedoms, and gay marriage is going to be a national right within 25 years.

I just don't think we're there yet because the demographic shift is still in process. Too many old homophobes who vote religiusly, not enough young people who care enough to vote.

[bronconick]

Re: Elections 2012 -- Kull Wahad!!!

Sounds like a gamble in trying to get the youth to vote in 2008ish numbers since they all had a taste of how utterly disappointing American politics are now.

[duper]

Re: Elections 2012 -- Kull Wahad!!!

unofan, I think you are probably right in a pragmatic way. I will say, however, that it makes me happy to see it becoming a plank in the platform. Forget Chick-Fil-A. Chick-Fil-A is full of sound and fury signifying nothing. I'm not sure exactly when this occurred, but a bakery in the Denver suburbs recently turned down an a gay couple who wanted to buy their wedding cake there. Right now, the shop owner has every right to say no. I hope that someday soon, he will no longer have the right to say no for that reason. I believe this is a civil rights issue. He will always have the right to financially support anti-gay marriage causes, and that's as it should be, just as it is with Chick-Fil-A, but I don't believe that he should be able to turn down a couple for being gay, any more than he could turn down a couple for being black, or (heaven forbid) of mixed race.

[mookie1995]

Re: Elections 2012 -- Kull Wahad!!!

I would argue that it's not a freedom from religion, rather a freedom of religion.

your of is my from. 6 or 1/2 dozen.

[Old Pio]

Re: Elections 2012 -- Kull Wahad!!!

Occam's razor. It's easier to explain away by stupidity and the desperate need for ratings and being first. CNN legal analysts read the first half dozen paragraphs of a 70 page court ruling and go with "Law struck down." ABC google searches shooters name, sees Tea Party connection, runs with it before anyone bothered to match ages. Even if you want to ascribe it to malice, it's some of the dumbest farking malice possible since it stands up to about .8 seconds worth of scrutiny.

A truly liberal media would be tearing Romney to pieces every time he blunders- "Why are you insulting our longest standing allies in Europe? When you say Israel's GDP is higher because of their superior culture, is that because Arabs are dirty brown people?" Instead, we have a horse race mentality where they're going to want it to be close for as long as possible, something they were even doing with the Republican primary simply because it garners better ratings.

Stupidity and need to be first fits a lot better than bias.

These concepts are more than just a little complimentary. But the stupidity usually is pretty predictable, coming as it does from only one direction. In Ross' case, what inspired him to check the Tea Party website? Instinct? Hunch? Bias? Did he check the ACLU website? Or the DNC's? Or Code Pink's? Or Occupy's? Or African-Americans for Barack Obama's? Or SEIU's? Doubtful.

In any case, as I've posted previously, it was absolutely unforgiveable and profoundly unprofessional to put a totally innocent man's name out there, period. You need to check these things out. But the instinct to involve the Tea Party in this dreadful business was overwhelming, just as it was after the Tucson shootings or the unsuccessful bomb plot in Brooklyn. The fact that this stuff keeps happening is NOT a coincidence. At least this time, nobody blamed Sarah Palin, although it's not too late.

Nothing Romney said in UK or Israel was a "blunder" or a "gaffe." Yet that manifestly untrue narrative has driven the coverage throughout the trip. Maybe the MSM ought to just start publishing the daily Obama talking points, it would take out the middle man. Only a Palestinian mouthpiece, with a well deserved reputation as a liar, has put the words "Jewish culture," in Romney's mouth. In fact, just about everything in Israel IS better, because of their adherance to Judeo-Christian principles and democracy among other things. No honor killings, stonings, beheadings, terror bombings, arranged marriages or genital mutilation or advocacy thereof. And "dirty, brown" is evidently something in your mind, no evidence it's in Mitt's.

[Old Pio]

Re: Elections 2012 -- Kull Wahad!!!

unofan, I think you are probably right in a pragmatic way. I will say, however, that it makes me happy to see it becoming a plank in the platform. Forget Chick-Fil-A. Chick-Fil-A is full of sound and fury signifying nothing. I'm not sure exactly when this occurred, but a bakery in the Denver suburbs recently turned down an a gay couple who wanted to buy their wedding cake there. Right now, the shop owner has every right to say no. I hope that someday soon, he will no longer have the right to say no for that reason. I believe this is a civil rights issue. He will always have the right to financially support anti-gay marriage causes, and that's as it should be, just as it is with Chick-Fil-A, but I don't believe that he should be able to turn down a couple for being gay, any more than he could turn down a couple for being black, or (heaven forbid) of mixed race.

I say make Nanny Bloomberg emperor of the United States. The rich dwarf already "knows" how much salt should be in our diets and how many ounces of soft drink are appropriate and what new mothers ought to feed their babies. And he'd prepared to enforce his preferences with the authority of law. So as emperor, he could just do away with freedom of speech, thought and religion. And since differences of opinion would be matters of "law," who could argue? "Everyone who disagrees with me is a criminal." Yeah, that's the ticket.

[Old Pio]

Re: Elections 2012 -- Kull Wahad!!!

A nit: the Founders believed in religious freedom, but they were mostly born in the colonies. The separatists who initially colonized America were almost all intolerant religious zealots who wanted a place where they could impose their religion. Roger Williams was an anomaly, almost everybody else was an asshole.

Having said which, it's obvious that sincere conservatives should be helping destroy this last shameful bigotry rather than squeezing a few more votes out of it. Southern whites still haven't lived down how horribly wrong they were on race in the 50's and 60's, and fundies are going to carry the stigma about these times well into the future.

Yes, and the people who represented those racist southern whites in congress and state legislatures and governor's mansions were all Democrats. Or did you forget? What does Wonkette have to say on the subject?

[unofan]

Re: Elections 2012 -- Kull Wahad!!!

unofan, I think you are probably right in a pragmatic way. I will say, however, that it makes me happy to see it becoming a plank in the platform. Forget Chick-Fil-A. Chick-Fil-A is full of sound and fury signifying nothing. I'm not sure exactly when this occurred, but a bakery in the Denver suburbs recently turned down an a gay couple who wanted to buy their wedding cake there. Right now, the shop owner has every right to say no. I hope that someday soon, he will no longer have the right to say no for that reason. I believe this is a civil rights issue. He will always have the right to financially support anti-gay marriage causes, and that's as it should be, just as it is with Chick-Fil-A, but I don't believe that he should be able to turn down a couple for being gay, any more than he could turn down a couple for being black, or (heaven forbid) of mixed race.

I believe it's 22 states which prohibit discrimination in employment due to sexual orientation, and the EEOC has just recently said Title VII covers sexual orientation for employment purposes as well. I know Iowa extends that to public accommodations (ie, the scenario you described), not sure about the other 21 states.

[Old Pio]

Re: Elections 2012 -- Kull Wahad!!!

I believe it's 22 states which prohibit discrimination in employment due to sexual orientation, and the EEOC has just recently said Title VII covers sexual orientation for employment purposes as well. I know Iowa extends that to public accommodations (ie, the scenario you described), not sure about the other 21 states.

Sooner or later employment "discrimination" based on sexual orientation will be illegal in all 50 states. I don't have a problem with it, and neither, apparantly does Chick-fil-a against whom nobody has brought the charge that they're discriminating in hiring. But there is still that pesky question of religious belief. Can you imagaine some mosque somewhere being forced to hire a Jew as receptionist?

One unintended consequence will be that just about every flaming Nancy boy or diesel dyke who doesn't get a job will hire a lawyer (certainly nobody who posts here ) to sue the company. Criminal records, total incompetence, enough piercings to set off a magnetometer in the next time zone, full facial tattoos, a drug habit that would make Richard Prior proud ("I could have bought Peru") will be insufficient to ward off the inevitable claims of "discrimination". Oh sure, straight people are denied employment every single day for all the reasons I just mentioned. But straights aren't "protected."

We're in a period of transition on these "gay" issues. Why even His Panderness had repeatedly expressed his oppositiion to gay marriage until just recently, when dismal polling data evidently changed his mind. But as the gay bully boys (and girls) roam the countryside, looking to club any who disagree with them into submission, please remember not every one who does disagree with their agenda in whole or in part is a bigot. Or a homophobe (God, I hate that word).

So in our zeal to provide full legal protection for our gay brothers and sisters, let's not lose sight of the fact that they're not the only ones with rights, or the expectation that those rights will be protected and respected.

[dxmnkd316]

Re: Elections 2012 -- Kull Wahad!!!

If you don't want discrimination based on sexual orientation, you can't discriminate based on philosophy. If you want the Jews to have the right to march down the street in Skokie, you better be prepared to let the Nazis march down that same street (as distasteful as it may be).

[Old Pio]

Re: Elections 2012 -- Kull Wahad!!!

If you don't want discrimination based on sexual orientation, you can't discriminate based on philosophy. If you want the Jews to have the right to march down the street in Skokie, you better be prepared to let the Nazis march down that same street (as distasteful as it may be).

You know, the standards for being the head "Illinois Nazi" are extremely high. Turns out Frank Collin's real name is Cohen, and there's evidence he may have been concieved in Dachau! Some Jewish zealots later convicted him on trumped up charges of having sex with two 10 year old boys, for which he served three years in the slammer. "I hate Illinois Nazis."

[FreshFish]

Re: Elections 2012 -- Kull Wahad!!!

Saw the results of a Gallup poll on TV yesterday.

# 1 problem: Job creation
# 2 problem: corruption in government
# 3 problem: reducing the federal deficit

# 12 problem: increasing tax rates on the wealthy
(there were 12 problems listed)

[Rover]

Re: Elections 2012 -- Kull Wahad!!!

Mittens needs a double dip recession or he's toast. Simply put, people don't like the guy. The more they see and find out, the less they do. He's the most unliked nominee in recent history, most likely since Nixon who was elected President a whopping forty four years ago!

Worse, despite being down only a few points in national polling, he's getting killed in the electoral college. A Republican nominee can't be fighting for his life in North Carolina, Virginia, and Florida and losing in Republican sponsored polls in Ohio and win an election. There's just not enough swing states out there for him to make up the difference unless he plans on winning California. Mittens needs to take every southern state off the board as well as neighboring NH and then be slugging it out in the Southwest (NV, CO and NM, three states he's losing badly in) and the Rust Belt (OH, PA) given that Obama only needs about 40 electoral votes to reach 270 out of the swing states. Until Mittens starts pulling ahead in these places or Democrats think election day has been moved to Wednesday he's in trouble. (Now cue some knuckledragger quoting how Reagan was losing to Carter at this time, an election held 32 long years ago and assuming Mittens = Reagan).

Regarding gay marriage, public is in favor. Those not in favor are already in Mittens camp. This can't hurt the campaign but has the potential to help.

[Bill]

Re: Elections 2012 -- Kull Wahad!!!

The latest figure I saw for actual unemployment, from Shadowstats, looks to be about 22.8%.

http://www.shadowstats.com/alternate...loyment-charts

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: Elections 2012 -- Kull Wahad!!!

Romney went to 3 countries and managed to **** off people in 2 of them. That's a .666 batting average. He's definite White House material.