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Elections 2012: You must choose the lesser of two weevils

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  • Re: Elections 2012: You must choose the lesser of two weevils

    When last we heard from Sheila Jackson Lee (D-Barking Moonbat) she was extolling the co-operation between North and South Vietnam. Now she's, awwww let her explain it herself:

    http://dailycaller.com/2012/05/31/ja...#ixzz1wTBHwDtt
    Last edited by Old Pio; 05-31-2012, 06:38 PM.
    2011 Poser of the Year & Pulitzer Prize winning machine gunner.

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    • Re: Elections 2012: You must choose the lesser of two weevils

      As colleges and universities receive less and less state support, the rationale for two-tiered pricing will start to erode. But we're not there quite yet. Extending in-state rates to out of staters can still make sense in certain circumstances, though. It allows small states to specialize and not duplicate each others' strengths. So state A can send students to state B for an MBA, and state B kids can go to state A for a JD. Or something like that.

      I've seen this in action.
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      • Re: Elections 2012: You must choose the lesser of two weevils

        Originally posted by amherstblackbear View Post
        As colleges and universities receive less and less state support, the rationale for two-tiered pricing will start to erode. But we're not there quite yet. Extending in-state rates to out of staters can still make sense in certain circumstances, though. It allows small states to specialize and not duplicate each others' strengths. So state A can send students to state B for an MBA, and state B kids can go to state A for a JD. Or something like that.

        I've seen this in action.
        http://www.nebhe.org/programs-overvi...reak/overview/
        When I went to Lake State I had a scholarship that paid the difference between instate and out of state (I am originally from Indiana), so essentially I paid in-state. At Southern Illinois, they offer instate tuition to students from certain counties in Indiana (the far southwest area), Kentucky (western), and Missouri (souteast). Im pretty sure its only certain counties but when I double checked the annoucnement about it, it never specified that it was only certain counties.

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        • Re: Elections 2012: You must choose the lesser of two weevils

          Awhile back, there was discussion about how difficult it was to terminate teachers for cause....here are some statistics from New York City:


          In the 2009-2010 school year, DOE brought dismissal charges against 176 teachers for misconduct, and 23 were fired. In ’10-’11, 223 were charged — with only 38 fired.

          These aren’t cursory investigations. The city spends months establishing guilt — and, in the event, the department has only a 15 percent success rate in getting bad teachers off the city payroll.

          Read more: http://www.nypost.com/p/news/opinion...#ixzz1wV2HTK9s
          "Hope is a good thing; maybe the best of things."

          "Beer is a sign that God loves us and wants us to be happy." -- Benjamin Franklin

          "Being Irish, he had an abiding sense of tragedy, which sustained him through temporary periods of joy." -- W. B. Yeats

          "People generally are most impatient with those flaws in others about which they are most ashamed of in themselves." - folk wisdom

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          • Re: Elections 2012: You must choose the lesser of two weevils

            Originally posted by Proud2baLaker View Post
            When I went to Lake State I had a scholarship that paid the difference between instate and out of state (I am originally from Indiana), so essentially I paid in-state. At Southern Illinois, they offer instate tuition to students from certain counties in Indiana (the far southwest area), Kentucky (western), and Missouri (souteast). Im pretty sure its only certain counties but when I double checked the annoucnement about it, it never specified that it was only certain counties.
            That's interesting. I almost became a Saluki, but that's a story for another day. Bob's point is, his opposition to granting in-state tuition to the children of illegals is so comprehensive, that he would prefer to grant that status to kids in other states instead solely because they're native born. Now that's not a realistic choice. It's never going to happen. He hasn't yet answered the questions of what rate, if any, the children of illegals SHOULD pay. Out of state? Or should they be barred from enrolling in state schools altogether? That attitude just strikes me as pretty extreme. Charging people who've lived virtually their entire lives in a state and who have been graduated from a high school within that state "out of state" tuition rates seems Draconian. Alternatively, granting in-state rates to out of state kids (solely because they were born here) strikes me as, well, silly.

            And you don't have to be a bleeding heart to believe that attitude is unnecessarily harsh. Just check with the Governor of Texas, whom nobody suggests is a bleeding heart. Ten or fifteen years from now, these kids will have become citizens and with their degrees will be able to take their places in a 21st century economy. And with those degrees they will be far more likely to contribute to that society rather than be a burden on it. I believe it's possible to hold these views without minimizing or downplaying the importance of citizenship.

            To me, it's a matter of recognizing the realities. And while repeating anti-illegal immigration slogans and taking a hard line is satisfying in the short term, it offers no solutions to the problems. Illegal immigration is unquestionably damaging to our country. But I also believe that erecting unnecessary barriors to the children of illegals also damages our country. There has to be a middle ground between the open borders crowd, for whom citizenship and national boundaries are just irrelevant "details," and the harsh, "I don't give a d*mn, they're illegal" approach. And we had better find it pretty quick.

            (note: except where indicated, this is not aimed at Bob).
            Last edited by Old Pio; 05-31-2012, 11:36 PM.
            2011 Poser of the Year & Pulitzer Prize winning machine gunner.

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            • Re: Elections 2012: You must choose the lesser of two weevils

              holy crap I agree with something Old Pio posted.

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              • Re: Elections 2012: You must choose the lesser of two weevils

                considering that many state schools are increasing their percentage of out of state students (follow the money), I could see some choppy political waters for granting in-state tuition to another group...but as long as somebody lives in the state, regardless of tax status, it would make sense to provide them with lower tuition
                I believe in life, and I believe in love, but the world in which I live in keeps trying to prove me wrong.

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                • Re: Elections 2012: You must choose the lesser of two weevils

                  Since the whole idea is for immigrants to assimilate and become productive, and a college education is an excellent way to do both, anything that makes it less likely for the children of immigrants to go to school is self-defeating.
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                  • Re: Elections 2012: You must choose the lesser of two weevils

                    Originally posted by Old Pio View Post
                    So, in your mind, the distinction between living or not living in a state is irrelevant. Then why not eliminate two tier tuition altogether? I understand you want to punish these kids of illegals, but what you're suggesting simply makes no sense. And if you're going to give tuition breaks to out of state kids, shouldn't you demand reciprocity from other states? It seems fairly simple to me, citizenship and residency are two different matters. You apparantly want to conflate them.
                    You're reading way more into what I said than I meant. All I was saying is that if there was a choice of giving someone a break on tuition, I'd give it to legal out of state students rather than illegals. I'm not saying out of state students should actually get in state tuition (with limited exceptions others have noted for neighboring states and such) and I agree it's unrealistic to think that'll happen, just that I'd go that direction before giving in state tuition to someone who isn't even in this country legally. I'm not into punishing anyone, but rather, given limited resources to fund higher education scholarships/tuition breaks, they should go to people who are here legally. You give a tuition break to an illegal, and that's money that doesn't help support a legal student. You sound like one of these big spending liberals who thinks money grows on trees and there never was a case of spending that wasn't warranted and that every possible benefit (such as college education) is a right that it's monstrous to not fund for them. Stop making my simple statement into something more than it is.

                    Priceless, did you hack Old Pio's account or something?
                    Last edited by Bob Gray; 06-01-2012, 10:08 AM.
                    Originally posted by Priceless
                    Good to see you're so reasonable.
                    Originally posted by ScoobyDoo
                    Very well, said.
                    Originally posted by Rover
                    A fair assessment Bob.

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                    • Re: Elections 2012: You must choose the lesser of two weevils

                      Originally posted by Priceless View Post
                      In the past you have referred to them as "anchor babies" have you not? And your contention was that they were not to be considered legal US citizens. As such, it would seem to me that they are not to be afforded in-state tuition. Or has your opinion evolved since that debate?
                      Your memory is faulty. The law is what it is, and the anchor babies are U.S. citizens. If they are U.S. citizens, they get treated just like all U.S. citizens. That's the law, which I support being enforced, unlike a lot of folks.

                      My point on the anchor babies was that the system is abused by people who just slip across the border illegally to have a baby and then go back, just so the baby can grab U.S. citizenship. I guess a lot of folks think we should just open the borders and let the entire world in to live here, no holds barred, and do whatever they want. The existing system to deal with legal immigration is a nightmare of bureaucracy and holds up legitimate people trying to work through the system for years on end. It just encourages people to come across legally because it's such a mess to try to work through the system.
                      Originally posted by Priceless
                      Good to see you're so reasonable.
                      Originally posted by ScoobyDoo
                      Very well, said.
                      Originally posted by Rover
                      A fair assessment Bob.

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                      • Re: Elections 2012: You must choose the lesser of two weevils

                        Originally posted by Bob Gray View Post
                        Your memory is faulty. The law is what it is, and the anchor babies are U.S. citizens. If they are U.S. citizens, they get treated just like all U.S. citizens. That's the law, which I support being enforced, unlike a lot of folks.

                        My point on the anchor babies was that the system is abused by people who just slip across the border illegally to have a baby and then go back, just so the baby can grab U.S. citizenship. I guess a lot of folks think we should just open the borders and let the entire world in to live here, no holds barred, and do whatever they want. The existing system to deal with legal immigration is a nightmare of bureaucracy and holds up legitimate people trying to work through the system for years on end. It just encourages people to come across legally because it's such a mess to try to work through the system.
                        My memory is Swiss Cheese, but in this case it is working fine. You don't approve of the law that makes "anchor babies" citizens (you might even support such a change in the law?), but recognize that it is so right now. That is a fair and consistent opinion. Thank you for taking the time to answer the question.

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                        • Re: Elections 2012: You must choose the lesser of two weevils

                          Originally posted by Priceless View Post
                          My memory is Swiss Cheese, but in this case it is working fine. You don't approve of the law that makes "anchor babies" citizens (you might even support such a change in the law?), but recognize that it is so right now. That is a fair and consistent opinion. Thank you for taking the time to answer the question.
                          Glad to clarify. There are a lot of issues like this that I think reasonable people can reach different conclusions on.
                          Originally posted by Priceless
                          Good to see you're so reasonable.
                          Originally posted by ScoobyDoo
                          Very well, said.
                          Originally posted by Rover
                          A fair assessment Bob.

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                          • Re: Elections 2012: You must choose the lesser of two weevils

                            What's this? We've got Big Bill Clinton running around singing Mitt Romney's praises, saying that he had a "sterling business career." This is WAY out of line with the official Democrat Party line, articulated by President Barack Obama, that Romney is a "vampire" who rises at night to feast on the blood of living victims. One of them has to be wrong, maybe Bill's getting senile like Reagan was when he won the Cold War.
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                            • Re: Elections 2012: You must choose the lesser of two weevils

                              Originally posted by geezer View Post
                              What's this? We've got Big Bill Clinton running around singing Mitt Romney's praises, saying that he had a "sterling business career." This is WAY out of line with the official Democrat Party line, articulated by President Barack Obama, that Romney is a "vampire" who rises at night to feast on the blood of living victims. One of them has to be wrong, maybe Bill's getting senile like Reagan was when he won the Cold War.
                              They're both right. Romney's business was as a vulture (not vampire) capitalist and he was very good at what he did.

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                              • Re: Elections 2012: You must choose the lesser of two weevils

                                I wonder if Clinton will get chastised back into line the way the Newark mayor was?
                                Originally posted by Priceless
                                Good to see you're so reasonable.
                                Originally posted by ScoobyDoo
                                Very well, said.
                                Originally posted by Rover
                                A fair assessment Bob.

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