RFK Assassination: witness tells CNN 2 shooters

[French Rage]

Re: RFK Assassination: witness tells CNN 2 shooters

Well that's the real question, isn't it? Why? The how and the who is just scenery for the public. Oswald, Ruby, Cuba, the Mafia. Keeps 'em guessing like some kind of parlor game, prevents 'em from asking the most important question, why? Why was Kennedy killed? Who benefited? Who has the power to cover it up? Who?

[FlagDUDE08]

Re: RFK Assassination: witness tells CNN 2 shooters

Well that's the real question, isn't it? Why? The how and the who is just scenery for the public. Oswald, Ruby, Cuba, the Mafia. Keeps 'em guessing like some kind of parlor game, prevents 'em from asking the most important question, why? Why was Kennedy killed? Who benefited? Who has the power to cover it up? Who?

Why was Kennedy killed? He wanted to abolish the Federal Reserve.

The other two questions should be obvious.

[Kepler]

Re: RFK Assassination: witness tells CNN 2 shooters

Well that's the real question, isn't it? Why? The how and the who is just scenery for the public. Oswald, Ruby, Cuba, the Mafia. Keeps 'em guessing like some kind of parlor game, prevents 'em from asking the most important question, why? Why was Kennedy killed? Who benefited? Who has the power to cover it up? Who?

Fine, cui bono?

1. The mob. The Kennedys were after them.
2. The CIA. JFK knew their secrets and wouldn't play ball.
3. J. Edgar. The gig was up.
4. The Commies. Payback for the CMC.
5. Right wing nutjobs. The far right thought Kennedy was a Commie.
6. The Cubans (either side). Payback for the BoP.
7. Joe Senior's enemies. The most hated man in America had more than his share.
8. LBJ. If you aim for the king, don't miss.
9. China. JFK was famously paranoid about the PRC and might have started a nuclear war.
10. The State Department. See 9.

Have I forgotten anybody? Because... I mean... who didn't want to kill Kennedy?

Edit: oh, apparently I did forget somebody (the Fed). Never heard that one. Good catch!

[FlagDUDE08]

Re: RFK Assassination: witness tells CNN 2 shooters

Edit: oh, apparently I did forget somebody (the Fed). Never heard that one. Good catch!

I actually had to look that up to make sure it fit. The Fed was given 50 years to stay in business. It was created on 23 December 1913. Kennedy was assassinated 22 November 1963, about one month before the Fed was to be renewed.

[Old Pio]

Re: RFK Assassination: witness tells CNN 2 shooters

Fine, cui bono?

1. The mob. The Kennedys were after them.
2. The CIA. JFK knew their secrets and wouldn't play ball.
3. J. Edgar. The gig was up.
4. The Commies. Payback for the CMC.
5. Right wing nutjobs. The far right thought Kennedy was a Commie.
6. The Cubans (either side). Payback for the BoP.
7. Joe Senior's enemies. The most hated man in America had more than his share.
8. LBJ. If you aim for the king, don't miss.
9. China. JFK was famously paranoid about the PRC and might have started a nuclear war.
10. The State Department. See 9.

Have I forgotten anybody? Because... I mean... who didn't want to kill Kennedy?

Edit: oh, apparently I did forget somebody (the Fed). Never heard that one. Good catch!

Two of my favorites are not on your list: Corsican drugdealers (according to the series The Men Who Killed Kennedy which aired on The History Channel back in the days before American Restoration). And my personal favorite: George de Morenschildt (sp) Oswald's white Russian friend in Dallas. Someone once sent me a whole packet of material claiming George was the guy. And pointing to a woman clearly visible in the Zapruder film wearing what appears to be a black rain coat. The claim was that was George, in drag, firing machine pistols, which nobody noticed and somehow fired bullets that were a ballistic match to Oswald's rifle.

You would think that after the passage of nearly 5 decades these conspiracy "historians" would by now have narrowed down the field just a bit. Alas, no.

I don't mean to be a prig, but you've evidently forgotten our conversation about "gig" vs "jig." Jig is the correct usage and is racially neutral.

[Old Pio]

Re: RFK Assassination: witness tells CNN 2 shooters

In the extended CNN article, William Pepper claims that as a consequence of there being a "second shooter" in that pantry, Sirhan B. Sirhan is "innocent."

Let your mind drift back to that awful event. A tiny pantry in the Ambassador Hotel is crowded with Kennedy staff, media, supporters and hotel workers. Suddenly shots ring out. And several of Bobby's supporters (chief among them all-pro defensive lineman Rosie Grier) leap on the man with the gun, subdue him and disarm him. According to Pepper they were delusiional. There was somebody else in that crowded, tiny pantry who was shooting AND NONE OF THEM SAW HIM. Those people who grabbed Sirhan were obviously misled by the gun in his hand and the muzzle flashes. Hard to understand how they jumped to the conclusion he was the shooter.

It's interesting that much of the argument here brings up echos of Dallas (in the Air Force we called it "sos" ) There's some sort of "accoustic expert" who claims his analysis of an audio tape reveals there were 12 to 14 shots, and since the capacity of Sirhan's pistol was only 8 shots "that means there has to have been a second shooter." Right. Like maybe the "accoustic experts" who assured the House Assassinations Committee that with a "probability of 90%" there were four shots fired in Dallas. And that means "there has to have been a second shooter." It took a rock musician in Ohio to discover that these "accoustic experts" were in fact, analyzing a tape from the trade center, not Dealey Plaza. Oh, well.

So, getting back to Pepper and his "witness." She doesn't claim to have seen another shooter. She claims to have "counted" more than 8 shots, thus "proving" there was more than one shooter. So we're in that pantry. Crowded. The Kennedy party pushing to get through. Suddenly, shots ring out. And this lady's first instinct is TO START COUNTING . "one. . . .two. . . .threefourfive. . . .sixseven. . .eight. . . .nineteneleven. . ..twelve (and maybe thirteen and fourteen.) But while she's carefully toting up the number of shots fired (and the direction from which they're coming) she somehow doesn't notice who's doing the shooting. Let's just say I'm skeptical. Is she lying? That's a possibility. But I doubt it. Is she miskaken? Almost certainly. Remember, in Dealey Plaza, with dozens of witnesses, the consensus was three shots. Although some folks (carefully reported by conspiracists) heard more. But the vast majority heard three.

A guy like Pepper works the room. He follows up on "witnesses," tracks them down, interviews them, flatters them, maybe takes 'em out to dinner maybe throws a couple of martinis into them. And they get to relive the most dramatic moment in their lives and participate in his great quest to "correct the record." One thing you will definitely NOT hear from Pepper, is any interview or data which don't fit into his conspiracy theory. Sort of like the JFK conspiracists who never mention the three depository employees on the 5th floor, who testified they heard three rifle shots directly overhead. There's photographic proof they were where they said they were, and their credibility has never been challenged. So what you do if you're a conspiracist and there's some inconvenient evidence, is ignore it.

As the private detective says in "Pyshco,": "if it don't gel it ain't aspic." Well, this doesn't gel in my mind. She's got presence of mind enough to "know" that there were 12 to `14 shots but somehow overlooks eyeballing the other dude with the gun.

The little matter of Sirhan's confession, guilty plea, and matching the bullets that hit RFK to his gun are mere details. But this little lady was in there. . .counting.

[FlagDUDE08]

Re: RFK Assassination: witness tells CNN 2 shooters

In the extended CNN article, William Pepper claims that as a consequence of there being a "second shooter" in that pantry, Sirhan B. Sirhan is "innocent."

Let your mind drift back to that awful event. A tiny pantry in the Ambassador Hotel is crowded with Kennedy staff, media, supporters and hotel workers. Suddenly shots ring out. And several of Bobby's supporters (chief among them all-pro defensive lineman Rosie Grier) leap on the man with the gun, subdue him and disarm him. According to Pepper they were delusiional. There was somebody else in that crowded, tiny pantry who was shooting AND NONE OF THEM SAW HIM. Those people who grabbed Sirhan were obviously mislead by the gun in his hand and the muzzle flashes. Hard to understand how they jumped to the conclusion he was the shooter.

It's interesting that much of the argument here brings up echos of Dallas. There's some sort of "accoustic expert" who claims his analysis of an audio tape reveals there were 12 to 14 shots, and since the capacity of Sirhan's pistol was only 8 shots "that means there has to have been a second shooter." Right. Like maybe the "accoustic experts" who assured the House Assassinations Committee that with a "probability of 90%" there were four shots fired in Dallas. And that means "there has to have been a second shooter." It took a rock musician in Ohio to discover that these "accoustic experts" were in fact, analyzing a tape from the trade center, not Dealey Plaza. Oh, well.

So, getting back to Pepper and his "witness." She doesn't claim to have seen another shooter. She claims to have "counted" more than 8 shots, thus "proving" there was more than one shooter. Let's go back to that pantry. Crowded. The Kennedy party pushing to get through. Suddenly, shots ring out. And this lady's first instinct is TO START COUNTING . "one. . . .two. . . .threefourfive. . . .sixseven. . .eight. . . .nineteneleven. . ..twelve (and maybe thirteen and fourteen." But while she's carefully toting up the number of shots fired (and the direction from which they're coming) she somehow doesn't notice who's doing the shooting. Let's just say I'm skeptical. Is she lying? That's a possibility. But I doubt it. Is she miskaken? Almost certainly. Remember, in Dealey Plaza, with dozens of witnesses, the consensus was three shots. Although some folks (carefully reported by conspiracists) heard more. But the vast majority heard three.

As the private detective says in "Pyshco,": "if it don't gel it ain't aspic." Well, this doesn't gel in my mind. She's got presence of mind enough to "know" that there were 12 to `14 shots but somehow overlooks eyeballing the other dude with the gun.

The little matter of Sirhan's confession, guilty plea, and matching the bullets that hit RFK to his gun are mere details. But this little lady was in there. . .counting.

But that does not make it 1 + 2 + 1 + 1, it makes it 1 + 1 + 2 + 1.

[Old Pio]

Re: RFK Assassination: witness tells CNN 2 shooters

But that does not make it 1 + 2 + 1 + 1, it makes it 1 + 1 + 2 + 1.