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The Offcial Thread to Debate Various Aspects of Various Religious Doctrine, Like...

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  • #46
    Re: The Offcial Thread to Debate Various Aspects of Various Religious Doctrine, Like.

    Originally posted by amherstblackbear View Post
    I see what you're saying - I think we're just talking past each other.

    Though I guess it wouldn't be the first time that a message board exchange generated sound and fury, signifying - if not nothing - then not a whole lot
    yeah, there are times I wish I could just plug in Emily Litella going "never mind...." in Gilda's sweet winsome voice....
    "Hope is a good thing; maybe the best of things."

    "Beer is a sign that God loves us and wants us to be happy." -- Benjamin Franklin

    "Being Irish, he had an abiding sense of tragedy, which sustained him through temporary periods of joy." -- W. B. Yeats

    "People generally are most impatient with those flaws in others about which they are most ashamed of in themselves." - folk wisdom

    Comment


    • #47
      Re: The Offcial Thread to Debate Various Aspects of Various Religious Doctrine, Like.

      I forgot to quote, but in reference to a couple of people who responded to my comment:

      I really wasn't trying to be a troll, or obnoxious. I truly believe that all religion, all faith, is damaging to humanity. Not just the fanatics, not just the zealots, not just the wackos. I believe it is all hurtful. HOWEVER, I in no way believe that my personal beliefs should be enforced on ANYONE else. Just because it is obvious to me how damaging religion is, doesn't mean I hold anyone's religious beliefs against them. Timothy A is a great example. The fact that he doesn't engage trolls, shows me that he is probably very sincere and honest in his beliefs. He also seems to accept that a great way to strengthen beliefs is to listen to those who believe something counter, and really THINK about why you disagree. That is great. I would never propose an abolition of religion. It just would be my hope that all religion would die out on its own. That's a hope, but not one I'm holding my breath on. In my Utopia (and let's remember that Sir Thomas More (who is also a Saint) coined the word Utopia from two Greek words that together meant "no place," showing that even as he wrote the book he recognized the impossibility of the concept) there is no religion, but not because it has been decreed, just because no one believes in any religion.

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      • #48
        Re: The Offcial Thread to Debate Various Aspects of Various Religious Doctrine, Like.

        Duper

        What do you call missionaries?
        (dinner?)
        CCT '77 & '78
        4 kids
        5 grandsons (BCA 7/09, CJA 5/14, JDL 8/14, JFL 6/16, PJL 7/18)
        1 granddaughter (EML 4/18)

        ”Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both.”
        - Benjamin Franklin

        Banned from the St. Lawrence University Facebook page - March 2016 (But I got better).

        I want to live forever. So far, so good.

        Comment


        • #49
          Re: The Offcial Thread to Debate Various Aspects of Various Religious Doctrine, Like.

          Originally posted by joecct View Post
          Duper

          What do you call missionaries?
          (dinner?)
          I have serious problems with missionaries.

          Comment


          • #50
            Originally posted by duper View Post
            I have serious problems with missionaries.
            In what way?
            CCT '77 & '78
            4 kids
            5 grandsons (BCA 7/09, CJA 5/14, JDL 8/14, JFL 6/16, PJL 7/18)
            1 granddaughter (EML 4/18)

            ”Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both.”
            - Benjamin Franklin

            Banned from the St. Lawrence University Facebook page - March 2016 (But I got better).

            I want to live forever. So far, so good.

            Comment


            • #51
              Re: The Offcial Thread to Debate Various Aspects of Various Religious Doctrine, Like.

              Originally posted by joecct View Post
              In what way?
              Honestly, how can you have read my posts in this thread and ask that? Think of something that you believe is harmful to humanity. Then think how you feel about people whose job it is to spread that thing.

              To start, "missionaries" is a pretty vague term. There aren't too many people going around killing the people that they can't convert anymore, so that's something. But I do believe that the concept of missionary work begins from a fundamental belief that "their lives will be better if they believe in my religion." I disagree.

              And for the record, if what you are getting at is that I am "missionizing" for atheism, that really isn't something I do, and it bugs me when other people do. I hope that I have not come across that way here. (And I'm not saying that is what you're getting at, I'm just perceiving it as a possibility.)

              Comment


              • #52
                Re: The Offcial Thread to Debate Various Aspects of Various Religious Doctrine, Like.

                Originally posted by duper View Post
                But I do believe that the concept of missionary work begins from a fundamental belief that "their lives will be better if they believe in my religion." I disagree.
                For everyone? Should we eliminate the concept of news in society because it makes some sad...even though it can be extremely important for others?

                My position is that people being educated about their choices is typically a good thing.

                Originally posted by LynahFan View Post
                Which is basically just a Utilitarian argument for continuation of religion. Why not just make the Utilitarian argument directly and say that more people will be happier more of the time if we each treated other as we would like to be treated? Same result, less dishonesty.
                Believing to just believe in anything is not dishonest...maybe strange.

                Having said that Utilitarianism is pretty much built on Christianity. The general pov came straight from Jesus. In fact Utilitarianism did come ultimately from a Joseph Priestley, very much a Christian. Priestley wanted to return Christianity to its "primitive" or "pure" form.

                So IMO it makes a ton of sense to go back to the source, Jesus. In any case, this is just another way Christianity has propogated Jesus' primary plank of 'do good towards others' into society.
                Go Gophers!

                Comment


                • #53
                  Re: The Offcial Thread to Debate Various Aspects of Various Religious Doctrine, Like.

                  Here is a very interesting statement from a public figure (I'll omit his name for now so that we can reflect on the substance of his words, and not who spoke them) on the intersection of private faith and public life. (Hint: It is NOT Sanctorum speaking).

                  "A person's faith is central to how they conduct themselves in public and in private. So to me, using my Catholic faith, we call it the social magisterium, which is how do you apply the doctrine of your teaching into your everyday life as a lay person?

                  "To me, the principle of subsidiarity . . . meaning government closest to the people governs best . . . where we, through our civic organizations, through our churches, through our charities, through all of our different groups where we interact with people as a community, that's how we advance the common good. By not having big government crowd out civic society, but by having enough space in our communities so that we can interact with each other, and take care of people who are down and out in our communities.

                  "Those principles are very, very important, and the preferential option for the poor, which is one of the primary tenets of Catholic social teaching, means don't keep people poor, don't make people dependent on government so that they stay stuck at their station in life. Help people get out of poverty out onto a life of independence."


                  Now, to me, these words are fairly unremarkable....if anything, admirable. It sounds like they could easily apply to any faith, and that the speaker was merely using his faith as an example.


                  What is interesting to me is that the entire left-wing blogosphere has gone ballistic in response. What is it in these words that they find so threatening that they have to nuke the speaker with personal character attacks while totally ignoring the substance of what he actually said?
                  Last edited by FreshFish; 04-12-2012, 08:48 AM.
                  "Hope is a good thing; maybe the best of things."

                  "Beer is a sign that God loves us and wants us to be happy." -- Benjamin Franklin

                  "Being Irish, he had an abiding sense of tragedy, which sustained him through temporary periods of joy." -- W. B. Yeats

                  "People generally are most impatient with those flaws in others about which they are most ashamed of in themselves." - folk wisdom

                  Comment


                  • #54
                    Re: The Offcial Thread to Debate Various Aspects of Various Religious Doctrine, Like.

                    If the knucklehead doesn't know the difference between tenets and tenants I don't have much respect for him.
                    "This world is your world. Take it easy, but take it." - Woody Guthrie

                    Comment


                    • #55
                      Re: The Offcial Thread to Debate Various Aspects of Various Religious Doctrine, Like.

                      Originally posted by Carter View Post
                      If the knucklehead doesn't know the difference between tenets and tenants I don't have much respect for him.
                      Since he said it in a speech, I'd suggest that the person who wrote down his words made that mistake, not the speaker. I'm sure that the speaker knows the difference.
                      "Hope is a good thing; maybe the best of things."

                      "Beer is a sign that God loves us and wants us to be happy." -- Benjamin Franklin

                      "Being Irish, he had an abiding sense of tragedy, which sustained him through temporary periods of joy." -- W. B. Yeats

                      "People generally are most impatient with those flaws in others about which they are most ashamed of in themselves." - folk wisdom

                      Comment

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