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2012 Elections - Fear is the mind killer. Fear is the little death....

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  • Re: 2012 Elections - Fear is the mind killer. Fear is the little death....

    Originally posted by Handyman View Post
    Really? Who? Not Cantor or any of the Tea Partiers. Tell me who these mythical GOPers are that are pushing for true Fiscal Responsibility because none of the vocal members seem to know what the words mean.
    We've been through this exercise many times before. Yawn. Jeff Flake, 6th District here in Arizona is a good example.
    Originally posted by Priceless
    Good to see you're so reasonable.
    Originally posted by ScoobyDoo
    Very well, said.
    Originally posted by Rover
    A fair assessment Bob.

    Comment


    • Re: 2012 Elections - Fear is the mind killer. Fear is the little death....

      Originally posted by Handyman View Post
      Why should they have to form a corporation to get the same rights the average slob in North Carolina has?

      By that ridiculously stupid standard states should be allowed to stop interracial marriages for the same reason. I mean if Tremaine and Mindy can just for a corporation and get the same rights why should Virginia or South Carolina be forced to allow them to marry? Or hey, lets say Florida feels Blacks or Cubans shouldn't vote, they could just take that right away and it would be ok because said people could just form a corporation and, since they are people, donate as much money as they want and have their voices heard even if they cant vote.

      Face facts, its bigotry whether you like it or not. It is also a violation of civil rights and goes against the shooting down of "Separate But Equal" because the bible says its icky.
      The main problem no one ever seems to talk about is that states (and I include the federal government in this) have no business being in the marriage business at all. It's a religious issue, and that's where it should be kept. If the the catholics want to ban gay marriage, if the mormons want to recognize plural marriages, who cares. That's between the institution of the church and the members of that church.

      The problem is that we have decided to superimpose over that religious sacrament some sort of state recognition, or licensure, and then start adding complicating factors like "marital" rights to certan benefits, inheritance rights, tax breaks, and a whole lot of other arbitrary associations with this religious act of marriage.

      If the states would simply do away with that, and handle all of these issues using partnership and contract law (which could easily be done), none of this stupidity has to occur.
      That community is already in the process of dissolution where each man begins to eye his neighbor as a possible enemy, where non-conformity with the accepted creed, political as well as religious, is a mark of disaffection; where denunciation, without specification or backing, takes the place of evidence; where orthodoxy chokes freedom of dissent; where faith in the eventual supremacy of reason has become so timid that we dare not enter our convictions in the open lists, to win or lose.

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      • Re: 2012 Elections - Fear is the mind killer. Fear is the little death....

        Originally posted by Handyman View Post
        Face facts, its bigotry whether you like it or not. It is also a violation of civil rights and goes against the shooting down of "Separate But Equal" because the bible says its icky.
        If God is against it, why should I be for it?

        Then again, God says "Thou shalt not commit adultery" and a lot of people think that's OK, too.
        CCT '77 & '78
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        - Benjamin Franklin

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        I want to live forever. So far, so good.

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        • Re: 2012 Elections - Fear is the mind killer. Fear is the little death....

          Originally posted by joecct View Post
          If God is against it, why should I be for it?

          Then again, God says "Thou shalt not commit adultery" and a lot of people think that's OK, too.
          We're supposed to let them tell us what is what. And we better like it or they'll make life more and more difficult for us. Yes, zey vill.
          Originally posted by Priceless
          Good to see you're so reasonable.
          Originally posted by ScoobyDoo
          Very well, said.
          Originally posted by Rover
          A fair assessment Bob.

          Comment


          • Re: 2012 Elections - Fear is the mind killer. Fear is the little death....

            Originally posted by SJHovey View Post
            The main problem no one ever seems to talk about is that states (and I include the federal government in this) have no business being in the marriage business at all. It's a religious issue, and that's where it should be kept. If the the catholics want to ban gay marriage, if the mormons want to recognize plural marriages, who cares. That's between the institution of the church and the members of that church.

            The problem is that we have decided to superimpose over that religious sacrament some sort of state recognition, or licensure, and then start adding complicating factors like "marital" rights to certan benefits, inheritance rights, tax breaks, and a whole lot of other arbitrary associations with this religious act of marriage.

            If the states would simply do away with that, and handle all of these issues using partnership and contract law (which could easily be done), none of this stupidity has to occur.
            There was a time when our nation was interested in having positive policies that would encourage stable and healthy families. And until recent social engineering, no one saw any sort of issue here, but now everything is made an issue.
            Originally posted by Priceless
            Good to see you're so reasonable.
            Originally posted by ScoobyDoo
            Very well, said.
            Originally posted by Rover
            A fair assessment Bob.

            Comment


            • Re: 2012 Elections - Fear is the mind killer. Fear is the little death....

              Originally posted by Bob Gray View Post
              There was a time when our nation was interested in having positive policies that would encourage stable and healthy families.
              Would you classify a family headed by a same-sex couple to be a "stable, healthy family"?
              Last edited by Priceless; 05-10-2012, 11:36 AM.

              Comment


              • Re: 2012 Elections - Fear is the mind killer. Fear is the little death....

                Originally posted by Bob Gray View Post
                There was a time when our nation was interested in having positive policies that would encourage stable and healthy families. And until recent social engineering, no one saw any sort of issue here, but now everything is made an issue.
                Wouldn't allowing more people to marry encourage additional stable and healthy families?

                As pointed out this argument is beyond stupid and is manipulated by whatever politicians think they can gain from it.

                We should simply give the term "marriage" to whatever church wants to use it. They can marry who they want, it's their church.

                Gov't defines civil unions and doesn't discriminate. With a civil union you get the current "benefits" of marriage such as medical coverage, tax breaks, inheritance rights, etc...

                Comment


                • Re: 2012 Elections - Fear is the mind killer. Fear is the little death....

                  Originally posted by Handyman View Post
                  Really? Who? Not Cantor or any of the Tea Partiers. Tell me who these mythical GOPers are that are pushing for true Fiscal Responsibility because none of the vocal members seem to know what the words mean.
                  Ron Paul

                  Comment


                  • Re: 2012 Elections - Fear is the mind killer. Fear is the little death....

                    Originally posted by Bob Gray View Post
                    ... No, but they are the lesser of the two evils in this situation, based on the long history of this issue, not one event...
                    I disagree. They are not the lesser of two evils. You just prefer borrow and spending to taxing and spending, or in the recent admins case spend and spending. Neither side when given a lot of control has ever made an effort to reduce spending. To give a major compliment like "the lesser of two evils" out in times like this is a lie.

                    Comment


                    • Re: 2012 Elections - Fear is the mind killer. Fear is the little death....

                      Originally posted by Priceless View Post
                      Ron Paul
                      As much as I think Paul is cuckoo for Cocoa Puffs about some things (you don't need an elaborate conspiracy theory about the Fed, you only need to know it was the banksters who set it up and still run it, so guess whose interests they're serving?), he does seem to be genuinely interested in fiscal responsibility. I would love to see Paul become the voice of the Republican Party, but that is roughly as likely as Paul becoming the voice of the Democratic Party.
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                      • Re: 2012 Elections - Fear is the mind killer. Fear is the little death....

                        Originally posted by sagard View Post
                        I disagree. They are not the lesser of two evils. You just prefer borrow and spending to taxing and spending, or in the recent admins case spend and spending. Neither side when given a lot of control has ever made an effort to reduce spending. To give a major compliment like "the lesser of two evils" out in times like this is a lie.
                        You are wrong. I realize it's politicallly expedient to focus on that one event, but you really need to take a longer term perspective. If you had ever read anything by me, you know I oppose borrow and spend vehemently. But, I realize it's easy to just spout a bit of political jargon like that.
                        Originally posted by Priceless
                        Good to see you're so reasonable.
                        Originally posted by ScoobyDoo
                        Very well, said.
                        Originally posted by Rover
                        A fair assessment Bob.

                        Comment

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