2012 Elections - Fear is the mind killer. Fear is the little death....

[Rogie21]

Re: 2012 Elections - Fear is the mind killer. Fear is the little death....

Question--Is the new White House "War on Marriage" going to be paid for or put on the credit card like Iraq and Afghanistan?
How about the War on Religion and the War on Christmas? Or the soon-to-be-announced War on Guns?

[unh_hockey]

Re: 2012 Elections - Fear is the mind killer. Fear is the little death....

Probably because 75% of voters couldn't tell you what a derivative is, what the Euro is and therefore the candidates can ignore it while campaigning.

Good point; I forget candidates pander to the masses.

On another note, Obama made a smart move backing the gay marriage stand. When you come out and take a side, you polarize your audience and gain the backing of the ones you want. I don't think obama was trying to make the demographic who was against gay marriage vote for him, so this move helped reach out to the audience he wanted. A good number of folks I know are in Obama's camp right now.

[Twitch Boy]

Re: 2012 Elections - Fear is the mind killer. Fear is the little death....

Good point; I forget candidates pander to the masses.

On another note, Obama made a smart move backing the gay marriage stand. When you come out and take a side, you polarize your audience and gain the backing of the ones you want. I don't think obama was trying to make the demographic who was against gay marriage vote for him, so this move helped reach out to the audience he wanted. A good number of folks I know are in Obama's camp right now.

This is Obama trying to re-energize the youth base and rally them to the polls. He's going to need them at the polls in November, not sitting at home apathetic or Occupying Whatever.

[French Rage]

Re: 2012 Elections - Fear is the mind killer. Fear is the little death....

Question--Is the new White House "War on Marriage" going to be paid for or put on the credit card like Iraq and Afghanistan?
How about the War on Religion and the War on Christmas? Or the soon-to-be-announced War on Guns?

???

[bronconick]

Re: 2012 Elections - Fear is the mind killer. Fear is the little death....

While this may not be generally analogous to Congress at large, it may illustrate the problem. During my time in Houston, Barbara Jordan represented a North Houston district. She was replaced by Mickey Leland, who lost his life on a relief mission to Africa. Mickey was replaced by Craig Washington, who, in his first media appearance as a congressman-elect, thanked the people of Houston for sending him to Washington "for 20 years." Eventually, Washington was replaced by Sheila Jackson Lee, widely regarded as the most imperious member, whose famous speech touting how well North and South Vietnam are getting along these days is a You Tube classic.

Devolution anyone?

Oh yes. And I wonder if it's tied to the elimination of the draft. From the Civil War to WWI to WWII most of this country's men served their nation in uniform for some period of time in each generation. Most of them seemed to view Washington as just another way to serve their country and for the most part, didn't go and act like spoiled children. And I think those men shamed the rest of the people in Washington to behave somewhat as well.

Even now when you get Iraq war vets like Kreisel in Minnesota into office, they're often by far the most upstanding members of their legislatures and for the most part, they speak common sense and even if you disagree with what they're saying, you can respect them for it. Of course, the atmosphere blows so much that he's bailing on public office after one term, which is something I can hardly blame him for.

(This whole theory is mainly because I followed part of that stadium debate and he pretty much owned it)

[Bob Gray]

Re: 2012 Elections - Fear is the mind killer. Fear is the little death....

Probably because 75% of voters couldn't tell you what a derivative is, what the Euro is and therefore the candidates can ignore it while campaigning.

True. The election could simply hinge on the timing of the next big crisis. If it happens to hit before the election, Obama is in trouble. If it happens to hit after the election, Obama is in much better shape to get reelected. It's really hard to believe how unaware the masses are of the mess Europe is in and all, but it's scarily true.

[joecct]

Re: 2012 Elections - Fear is the mind killer. Fear is the little death....

Oh yes. And I wonder if it's tied to the elimination of the draft. From the Civil War to WWI to WWII most of this country's men served their nation in uniform for some period of time in each generation. Most of them seemed to view Washington as just another way to serve their country and for the most part, didn't go and act like spoiled children. And I think those men shamed the rest of the people in Washington to behave somewhat as well.

WOT!!!

The draft was put in to get bodies to fill in for the casualties that took out the regulars or to fill out the wartime expansion. There was no peacetime draft until after WW-II, and that ended in the mid-70's in the midst of the (very unpopular) Vietnam War.

Other than that, we've had a volunteer army. And as a reminder, there were draft riots (pretty spectacular by all accounts) in NYC during the Civil War, and the OHIO (Over the Hill in October) chant just before WW-II broke out. No, this country does not like a draft.

On the other hand, serving one's country in some shape or form, is a desired activity. We could be like Heinlein and require service in order to vote or to serve in public office, but again, in this me first culture, no way.

[Old Pio]

Re: 2012 Elections - Fear is the mind killer. Fear is the little death....

Oh yes. And I wonder if it's tied to the elimination of the draft. From the Civil War to WWI to WWII most of this country's men served their nation in uniform for some period of time in each generation. Most of them seemed to view Washington as just another way to serve their country and for the most part, didn't go and act like spoiled children. And I think those men shamed the rest of the people in Washington to behave somewhat as well.

Even now when you get Iraq war vets like Kreisel in Minnesota into office, they're often by far the most upstanding members of their legislatures and for the most part, they speak common sense and even if you disagree with what they're saying, you can respect them for it. Of course, the atmosphere blows so much that he's bailing on public office after one term, which is something I can hardly blame him for.

(This whole theory is mainly because I followed part of that stadium debate and he pretty much owned it)

That probably part of it, although nobody (especially the military) wants to go back to a draft. In those days almost everyone either served, or knew someone who served--son, brother, nephew, neighbor, yard boy, etc. The downside of all-vol is that we seem to have lost some of that connection. And with young men facing injury and death in Afghanistan, the overwhelming majority of us are only familiar with what's going on in an intellectual sense. We don't have any skin in the game.

What you learn when you deal with members of our military or see them on TV is that they truly ARE the best we've got. Smart, motivated, disciplined, goal oriented and unabashedly patriotic. As to the draft, it's a huge money and time waster. My older brother, with a degree from Brown and an MBA from Northwestern was drafted, and the Army made him a cook. And that sort of misuse of manpower was SOP in those days.

[bronconick]

Re: 2012 Elections - Fear is the mind killer. Fear is the little death....

Well, maybe enough Iraq/Afghanistan war vets decide to get into politics that we can go back to shaming everyone else in Washington. It'd be a nice silver lining to the whole thing.

[joecct]

Re: 2012 Elections - Fear is the mind killer. Fear is the little death....

OK by me.

Here is the text of the new NC Amendment

Sec. 6. Marriage.

Marriage between one man and one woman is the only domestic legal union that shall be valid or recognized in this State. This section does not prohibit a private party from entering into contracts with another private party; nor does this section prohibit courts from adjudicating the rights of private parties pursuant to such contracts.

If I read this correctly, Bob and Mike can't get married, but they can make a contract (form a domestic corporation?) and have all the benefits of a corporation (and be job creators!). Bob and Mike could be protected in case of dissolution (divorce) by the Articles of Incorporation. They also get to deduct all sorts of things.

[leswp1]

Re: 2012 Elections - Fear is the mind killer. Fear is the little death....

That is downright clever until someone freaks out because corps can't be same sex to prevent the possibility...

Many people either have had abortions, have family or relatives that have had abortions, or know people that have had abortions, and a lot of folks who are involved in abortions in one way or another have issues they deal with at some point later in life, though these are often buried for awhile. That's why, like where my wife and I volunteer, they have post-abortion support groups to help people work through the psychological and/or physical issues resulting from an abortion.

Oh, and of course, there's a broad social interest in having a society that values life. Unlike gay marriage where our society is liberalizing pretty quickly, this issue is moving toward social conservatives as medical technology more and more demonstrates how early in a baby's formation in the mother's womb various bodily functions and activities begin occurring. Surveys have shown that young people are more strongly opposed to abortion in aggregate than the generation(s) older than them. Hard to argue with an ultrasound that shows a baby wriggling around in the womb and then you hear the heartbeat, see the fingers and toes, etc.

If the younger generation is more strongly opposed (which doesn't seem to be my experience) I wonder if it is because the risk of needing an abortion is sig less now than 25 yrs ago. Kids are much more educated about birth control. Even if their adults are not keen on them knowing, they can access accurate information and the method of choice. They are also more knowledgeable on the whole about sex, conception and risk. The level of teen pregnancy in our area (not counting the blip up when Romney was around to decrease clinics and funding) is much less now than before. Less need= less demand= less support for something they don't feel is necessary for themselves.

Not disagreeing with the medical stuff, just the premise. Teens are pretty self absorbed (not all but as a generalization).

[leswp1]

Re: 2012 Elections - Fear is the mind killer. Fear is the little death....

True. The election could simply hinge on the timing of the next big crisis. If it happens to hit before the election, Obama is in trouble. If it happens to hit after the election, Obama is in much better shape to get reelected. It's really hard to believe how unaware the masses are of the mess Europe is in and all, but it's scarily true.

This. My kid has friends who can barely name a few European countries never mind be aware of the financial strife. Lil les is more knowledgeable than most of the adults in our neighborhood. Blame NPR- that socialist radio station that has international news on to polute his mind.

[Old Pio]

Re: 2012 Elections - Fear is the mind killer. Fear is the little death....

This. My kid has friends who can barely name a few European countries never mind be aware of the financial strife. Lil les is more knowledgeable than most of the adults in our neighborhood. Blame NPR- that socialist radio station that has international news on to polute his mind.

In between reports on the problems of gay prison inmates and Mumia Abu Jamal, NPR can be a good source of information. Certainly superior to your local TV "news." Mindless, boring, uninformative and stupid. But other than that, a good place to find out wht's going on.

[joecct]

Re: 2012 Elections - Fear is the mind killer. Fear is the little death....

That is downright clever until someone freaks out because corps can't be same sex to prevent the possibility...

Les

My son, who graduated from one of the Commonwealth's better universities with degrees in accounting and economics, told me that is a common practice in Massachusetts. On the Commonwealth side, Bob and Mike are married, but can't be for federal purposes. So they form a corporation to get the federal bennies that only accrue to a hetero couple.

My reading of the NC Amendment seems to imply that it would also apply to polygamous or line "marriages" as well. I wonder how big a truck you can drive through that loophole??

[leswp1]

Re: 2012 Elections - Fear is the mind killer. Fear is the little death....

Les

My son, who graduated from one of the Commonwealth's better universities with degrees in accounting and economics, told me that is a common practice in Massachusetts. On the Commonwealth side, Bob and Mike are married, but can't be for federal purposes. So they form a corporation to get the federal bennies that only accrue to a hetero couple.

My reading of the NC Amendment seems to imply that it would also apply to polygamous or line "marriages" as well. I wonder how big a truck you can drive through that loophole??

Hopefully a very large one.