2012 Elections - Fear is the mind killer. Fear is the little death....

[dxmnkd316]

Re: 2012 Elections - Fear is the mind killer. Fear is the little death....

I don't know where else to put this, but since it's an election in 2012...

In their infinite wisdom, the French have watched Greece, Italy, and Spain fail miserably and decide, "Hey, we want in on this" by electing a Socialist president. A man who wants to rip up the agreement that is essentially the thread holding the Euro together. Run towards instability, France. Keep on running. Almost as stupid of a choice as electing Le Pen.

[Old Pio]

Re: 2012 Elections - Fear is the mind killer. Fear is the little death....

Why were you in my house this morning? I was watching The Third Man. That kid with the ball... now that is creepy, and I always misremember him as being in "M."

Yeah, every time I see it I want Joe Cotton to punt that kid to Oberamergau. But it's worth it just to hear Anton Karas' music. Another of the very very best movie themes. IIRC, three versions of the theme became hits. The original and two covers. At the Sapporo Olympics, the Austrians set up an A frame ski chalet where weary media types could imbibe and nibble. And Mr. Swoboda was there, providing the zither music.

[Handyman]

Re: 2012 Elections - Fear is the mind killer. Fear is the little death....

I wonder if this counts as a "gaffe," or is being deliberately floated as the precursor to Obama eventually concurring. The obvious follow-up question is whether the president's "position is still evolving."

It gives Romney a perfect podium moment where he can thunder "segregation today, segregation tomorrow, segregation forever!" and endear himself to theocons.

If it was a gaffe he would have put out a statement to "clarify" and take it back. He hasnt.

If Obama finally took a stand on this issue people might actually support him. His lack of gumption on any major issue is why he isnt wiping the floor with the GOP as we speak. He looks like the stereotypical wishy washy Dem afraid of ticking off either side of an issue.

[Kepler]

Re: 2012 Elections - Fear is the mind killer. Fear is the little death....

Speaking of which, one of the wierdest moments in any movie came in "The Third Man" where the gendarmes are waiting to arrest Harry Lime and the creepy old balloon man keeps saying: "Bah loon?" "Bah loon?" And it's friggin' midnight. Not what you'd call prime time for selling balloons. Most of the kiddies are in bed. "Bah loon?"

Why were you in my house this morning? I was watching The Third Man. That kid with the ball... now that is creepy, and I always misremember him as being in "M."

[Old Pio]

Re: 2012 Elections - Fear is the mind killer. Fear is the little death....

Then you should be nominating Obama.

His Postpartisanpostracialness? Je le doute.

[Old Pio]

Re: 2012 Elections - Fear is the mind killer. Fear is the little death....

I wonder if this counts as a "gaffe," or is being deliberately floated as the precursor to Obama eventually concurring. The obvious follow-up question is whether the president's "position is still evolving."

It gives Romney a perfect podium moment where he can thunder "segregation today, segregation tomorrow, segregation forever!" and endear himself to theocons.

Obama supports gay marriage. Everyone knows it. Anyone who believes he hasn't made up his mind thinks the Geico lizard can actually talk. This be a trial balloon. Or artillerymen talking about "preparing the battlefield."

Speaking of which, one of the wierdest moments in any movie came in "The Third Man" where the gendarmes are waiting to arrest Harry Lime and the creepy old balloon man keeps saying: "Bah loon?" "Bah loon?" And it's friggin' midnight. Not what you'd call prime time for selling balloons. Most of the kiddies are in bed. "Bah loon?"

[Kepler]

Re: 2012 Elections - Fear is the mind killer. Fear is the little death....

Biden Openly Supports Gay Marriage

I wonder if this counts as a "gaffe," or is being deliberately floated as the precursor to Obama eventually concurring. The obvious follow-up question is whether the president's "position is still evolving."

It gives Romney a perfect podium moment where he can thunder "segregation today, segregation tomorrow, segregation forever!" and endear himself to theocons.

[Handyman]

Re: 2012 Elections - Fear is the mind killer. Fear is the little death....

Biden Openly Supports Gay Marriage

GREGORY: You’re comfortable with same-sex marriage now?

BIDEN: Look, I am Vice President of the United States of America. The president sets the policy. I am absolutely comfortable with the fact that men marrying men, women marrying women and heterosexual men marrying women are entitled to the same exact rights. All the civil rights, all the civil liberties. And quite frankly I don’t see much of a distinction beyond that. [...] I think Will & Grace probably did more to educate the American public than almost anything anybody has done so far. People fear that is different and now they’re beginning to understand.

I am not a big Biden guy...but as a supporter of Same Sex Marriage I applaud him

[Kepler]

Re: 2012 Elections - Fear is the mind killer. Fear is the little death....

I'm a firm believer in the "Buckley Rule," nominate the most convservative candidate who can win. Thus, if Scott Brown is the best we can do in MA, then nominate Scott Brown.

Then you should be nominating Obama.

[joecct]

Re: 2012 Elections - Fear is the mind killer. Fear is the little death....

You want somebody to look up to? Think about Barry Goldwater. 60 missions over "the hump" in Burma.

Lieutenant General in the Air Force reserve (qualified to fly every plane then in the inventory). Desegregated Goldwater's Department Store, desegregated the AZ national guard. Criticized LBJ for taking advantage of the "Lyndon rule" (as did Lloyd Bentsen) which allowed him to run for VP and the senate at the same time. He put his senate seat on the line in '64, knowing he was surely going to lose and be out of the senate, too.

Paid for tens of thousands of dollars in 'phone calls so GI's in 'Nam could connect with their families through the MARS system at no cost to them.

Wrote the reorganization of the Joint Chief of Staff as his final legislative accomplishment. It passed 100-0.

In a memorable post-Watergate appearance on "Meet the Press" had very strong words for whoever asked the question about the "appearance of impropriety" for him accepting the occasional plane ride back to Arizona on a corporate jet. "My vote in the Senate is not for sale for a GD plane ride!"

And in another memorable quote, was asked his opinion of the Falwell suggestion that "all good Christians should pray for Barry Goldwater's soul." Barry's response? "All good Christians should kick Jerry Falwell in the a*s."

Seems to me we used to produce leaders like that all the time. Hubert Humphrey, Scoop Jackson, Ev Dirksen. Now we get John Edwards.

Spot on. And given the current way the state legislatures are chosen and the way they are run, fuggettabout it.

Tonight's Trivia question -- without looking it up, who's older? Clinton or Bush43?

[Old Pio]

Re: 2012 Elections - Fear is the mind killer. Fear is the little death....

There is one other possibility, which is that I really am RINO scum.

What can I say - American politics makes me cranky. Probably time to go back to the international politics threads...

You want somebody to look up to? Think about Barry Goldwater. 60 missions over "the hump" in Burma.

Lieutenant General in the Air Force reserve (qualified to fly every plane then in the inventory). Desegregated Goldwater's Department Store, desegregated the AZ national guard. Criticized LBJ for taking advantage of the "Lyndon rule" (as did Lloyd Bentsen) which allowed him to run for VP and the senate at the same time. He put his senate seat on the line in '64, knowing he was surely going to lose and be out of the senate, too.

Paid for tens of thousands of dollars in 'phone calls so GI's in 'Nam could connect with their families through the MARS system at no cost to them.

Wrote the reorganization of the Joint Chief of Staff as his final legislative accomplishment. It passed 100-0.

In a memorable post-Watergate appearance on "Meet the Press" had very strong words for whoever asked the question about the "appearance of impropriety" for him accepting the occasional plane ride back to Arizona on a corporate jet. "My vote in the Senate is not for sale for a GD plane ride!"

And in another memorable quote, was asked his opinion of the Falwell suggestion that "all good Christians should pray for Barry Goldwater's soul." Barry's response? "All good Christians should kick Jerry Falwell in the a*s."

Seems to me we used to produce leaders like that all the time. Hubert Humphrey, Scoop Jackson, Ev Dirksen. Now we get John Edwards.

[amherstblackbear]

Re: 2012 Elections - Fear is the mind killer. Fear is the little death....

There is one other possibility, which is that I really am RINO scum.

What can I say - American politics makes me cranky. Probably time to go back to the international politics threads...

[Old Pio]

Re: 2012 Elections - Fear is the mind killer. Fear is the little death....

This is annoying, but the blame lies with the GOP, not with liberal analysts.

In today's GOP, it seems that social conservatism is non-negotiable. You can be a social conservative who isn't fiscally conservative. You can be a social conservative who is also a fiscal conservative. If you try to be a fiscal conservative without also being a social conservative, you are RINO scum. Worse than Bernie Sanders who, at least, is honest.

Exacerbating the problem is the fact that the GOP has not shown any real inclination of being fiscally conservative. Rather, it has pursued symbolic fiscal conservatism, putting only selectively-chosen programs in the cross-hairs. In other words, fiscal conservatism is used and abused, simply to provide political cover for pursuing social conservatism.

Really, the entire GOP can go up in flames, as far as I'm concerned. It's a shame that Santorum didn't win the nomination. Only by offering social conservatives a clear win, internally, followed by shattering defeat in a general election, will the party get its priorities straight.

IMO, of course.

Understood. Santorum has always struck me as a bit dim. It was Reagan who encouraged the "socials" to get politically active. In discussing Jerry Falwell (who really burst onto the scene in '80), somebody said Falwell's like the rooster who crows when the sun comes up. Ultimately he begins to believe the sun comes up because of his crowing.

I'm a firm believer in the "Buckley Rule," nominate the most convservative candidate who can win. Thus, if Scott Brown is the best we can do in MA, then nominate Scott Brown. I'm also a firm believer that half a loaf is better than none. This idea of symbolic candidacies, certain to end in defeat, interests me not one bit. Although I don't hide under the bed at the prospect of the Tea Party, they did put up some dreadful candidates that cost the GOP a shot at control of the Senate.

And there's no question all politicians tend to "go native" when they get to Washington. Calling to mind the expression, "a billion here, a billion there, pretty soon you're talking about serious money." But your analysis strikes me as a bit facile, relying as it does on the notion that "social" conservatives are calling all the shots all the time. IMO they've got too much influence, but no more than the zanys on the other side. And conservatives, either "fiscal" or "social" at least talk about spending cuts (actually cuts in the rate of growth) whereas apart from gutting defense, most libs would rather have their tongues cut out.

Now in terms of intolerance I'm sure it's not necessary for me to point out that the Democrat party is loaded with idological prigs, too. Remember Governor Casey of Pennsylvania? He had the bad manners to be pro-life and was denied a chance to speak to a Democrat convention because of it. This whole abortion/contraception motiff encouraged the Democrats to wheel out an aging debutante to cry huge tears that the government wasn't paying for her sex life (complete with grossly overstated costs to provide her the happiness she felt I should pay for). This was followed by the "war on women," and "Julia," who was created to remind women that they should be grateful to be in the warm embrace of Uncle Sam, from cradle to grave.

A couple of days ago Kepler referred to the Democrats in congress (collectively) as "moderate." Really? The Black Caucus, the Progressive Caucus? And the various members of both houses who roll over on their backs, waiting to have their bellies scratched when big labor calls? Anyway, the point is that neither side has a claim on moderation or bi-partisanship. More's the pity.

I've posted several times about LBJ calling his old friend Ev Dirksen of Illinois into the oval to see if there wasn't a way to round up some GOP votes for the Civil Rights act of '64. There seemed to be much more comity in those days. Far less now. I don't know why and I can't offer any prescription for improving the atmosphere


The effects of "shattering" defeats have a history of not being very long lasting. The '64 Goldwater defeat, just four years later, gave us. . .Nixon. And vigorous, hotly contested nominating seasons don't always mean disaster in November. It surely didn't hurt His Spikingtheballness, did it?

[amherstblackbear]

Re: 2012 Elections - Fear is the mind killer. Fear is the little death....

It continues to amaze that self-defined liberal political analysts (including most of the ones who post here) are incapable or unwilling to differentiate as between "social" conservatives and "fiscal" conservatives.

This is annoying, but the blame lies with the GOP, not with liberal analysts.

In today's GOP, it seems that social conservatism is non-negotiable. You can be a social conservative who isn't fiscally conservative. You can be a social conservative who is also a fiscal conservative. If you try to be a fiscal conservative without also being a social conservative, you are RINO scum. Worse than Bernie Sanders who, at least, is honest.

Exacerbating the problem is the fact that the GOP has not shown any real inclination of being fiscally conservative. Rather, it has pursued symbolic fiscal conservatism, putting only selectively-chosen programs in the cross-hairs. In other words, fiscal conservatism is used and abused, simply to provide political cover for pursuing social conservatism.

Really, the entire GOP can go up in flames, as far as I'm concerned. It's a shame that Santorum didn't win the nomination. Only by offering social conservatives a clear win, internally, followed by shattering defeat in a general election, will the party get its priorities straight.

IMO, of course.

ETA: now watch Romney win the primary, lose the general, and set this back by years.

[Old Pio]

Re: 2012 Elections - Fear is the mind killer. Fear is the little death....

Most here have appreciation for managing government revenue/expenses which some call 'fiscal conservatism'...myself definitely included. The question is how to make it happen.

My belief is that social conservatism is, shall we say, less popular here.

Brewer's Arizona is probably the most socially conservative political team in the country. In addition to reviewing immigration status' and limiting universities rights to determine ciriculum for its students, they are now limiting contraception access to employees. Hold no illusions, these are not wildly popular moves. Brewer's popularity among moderates is weak as only about a third of independents approve her peformance. We'll see if that causes Romney to divert some resources there that he would rather not have to.

You'd be concerned about "reviewing immigration status" too if you were up to your lips in illegals and the federal government seemed not to give a sh*t. Coyotes, drug smugglers, murderers, rapists, kidnappers, "safe houses" and all the rest. We're not talking about house keepers and yard boys here.

It continues to amaze that self-defined liberal political analysts (including most of the ones who post here) are incapable or unwilling to differentiate as between "social" conservatives and "fiscal" conservatives. In their collective "nuanced" approach to these matters, they throw us all into the same hat. It may be good stroke material, but it's not accurate. But then, when was accuracy ever a priority?