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The Sad Case of the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act

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  • Re: The Sad Case of the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act

    Originally posted by dxmnkd316 View Post
    I think you two COMPLETELY missed my point. The point was that premiums are meaningless if you don't know your deductible. In the situation I mentioned, you should have seen the word "car" in the sentence and realized I was using car insurance as an example.

    (Edit: In retrospect, my original sentence was clumsy. I meant taking your car insurance deductible to $1,000 to reduce your premiums. Since I know a lot of people with $500 deductibles. Same thing with health insurance. A high deductible plan will necessarily carry low premiums.)
    That makes more sense. The problem is still that many people who receive healthcare through their employer do not have the option to choose a higher deductible plan.

    Comment


    • Re: The Sad Case of the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act

      Originally posted by unofan View Post
      The exact same plan costs ~6.5% less than this year. Nothing about it changed.
      Was your plan one of those who had a high administrative cost? It could be that instead of refunding premiums, they lowered the following year's rates. Or, the size of the pool got a lot bigger so the risk is more spread out. Just guesses.
      CCT '77 & '78
      4 kids
      5 grandsons (BCA 7/09, CJA 5/14, JDL 8/14, JFL 6/16, PJL 7/18)
      1 granddaughter (EML 4/18)

      ”Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both.”
      - Benjamin Franklin

      Banned from the St. Lawrence University Facebook page - March 2016 (But I got better).

      I want to live forever. So far, so good.

      Comment


      • Re: The Sad Case of the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act

        Originally posted by joecct View Post
        Was your plan one of those who had a high administrative cost? It could be that instead of refunding premiums, they lowered the following year's rates. Or, the size of the pool got a lot bigger so the risk is more spread out. Just guesses.
        It is not uncommon for there to be a one-year lag between rates and experience. Much depends upon how wide the experience pool is. The smaller the pool, the greater the potential for year-over-year volatility.

        It's also possible that a large employer with a higher risk profile switched companies, removing a disproportionate drag on the experience pool. There are easily half a dozen diferent hypothetical explanations that might fit.
        "Hope is a good thing; maybe the best of things."

        "Beer is a sign that God loves us and wants us to be happy." -- Benjamin Franklin

        "Being Irish, he had an abiding sense of tragedy, which sustained him through temporary periods of joy." -- W. B. Yeats

        "People generally are most impatient with those flaws in others about which they are most ashamed of in themselves." - folk wisdom

        Comment


        • Re: The Sad Case of the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act

          Originally posted by jerphisch View Post
          That makes more sense. The problem is still that many people who receive healthcare through their employer do not have the option to choose a higher deductible plan.
          Yeah, I'm lucky. Our company self-insures so we get a bunch of choices. A high deduct or two "regular" plans (one administered through Blue Cross Blue Shield the other through HealthPartners).
          Code:
          As of 9/21/10:         As of 9/13/10:
          College Hockey 6       College Football 0
          BTHC 4                 WCHA FC:  1
          Originally posted by SanTropez
          May your paint thinner run dry and the fleas of a thousand camels infest your dead deer.
          Originally posted by bigblue_dl
          I don't even know how to classify magic vagina smoke babies..
          Originally posted by Kepler
          When the giraffes start building radio telescopes they can join too.
          He's probably going to be a superstar but that man has more baggage than North West

          Comment


          • Re: The Sad Case of the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act

            Originally posted by dxmnkd316 View Post
            Yeah, I'm lucky. Our company self-insures so we get a bunch of choices. A high deduct or two "regular" plans (one administered through Blue Cross Blue Shield the other through HealthPartners).
            If you want to see what the Feds have for health benefits, go here: http://www.opm.gov/insure/health/search/plansearch.aspx

            This is what should be out there for everyone, but why re-invent the wheel?
            CCT '77 & '78
            4 kids
            5 grandsons (BCA 7/09, CJA 5/14, JDL 8/14, JFL 6/16, PJL 7/18)
            1 granddaughter (EML 4/18)

            ”Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both.”
            - Benjamin Franklin

            Banned from the St. Lawrence University Facebook page - March 2016 (But I got better).

            I want to live forever. So far, so good.

            Comment


            • Re: The Sad Case of the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act

              Originally posted by joecct View Post
              If you want to see what the Feds have for health benefits, go here: http://www.opm.gov/insure/health/search/plansearch.aspx

              This is what should be out there for everyone, but why re-invent the wheel?
              HFS

              That's incredible.
              Code:
              As of 9/21/10:         As of 9/13/10:
              College Hockey 6       College Football 0
              BTHC 4                 WCHA FC:  1
              Originally posted by SanTropez
              May your paint thinner run dry and the fleas of a thousand camels infest your dead deer.
              Originally posted by bigblue_dl
              I don't even know how to classify magic vagina smoke babies..
              Originally posted by Kepler
              When the giraffes start building radio telescopes they can join too.
              He's probably going to be a superstar but that man has more baggage than North West

              Comment


              • Re: The Sad Case of the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act

                I learned something new about the law, that I didn't know before. Another serious drafting error (assuming the author of this article is accurate, at least....)

                The debate over President Obama’s health-care law has taken another twist. Now conservatives and libertarians are defending it, while the administration tries to toss part of the legislation out.

                ....

                Obama’s plan makes tax credits available to people who get health insurance from exchanges set up by state governments. If states don’t establish those exchanges, the federal government will do so for them. But federal exchanges don’t come with tax credits: The law OKs credits only for people who get insurance from state-established exchanges.

                And that creates some problems the administration didn’t foresee, and now hopes to wish away.

                ....

                If [the states] don’t [set up exchanges], the tax credits don’t go into effect and the federally established exchanges won’t work: People won’t be able to afford the insurance available on them without the subsidy.

                States have another incentive to refrain from setting up exchanges: It protects companies and individuals in the state from tax increases.

                The law introduces penalties up to $3,000 per employee for firms that don’t provide insurance — but only if an employee is getting coverage with the help of a tax credit. No state exchanges means no tax credits and thus no employer penalties.

                The law also penalizes people for not buying insurance. In some cases, being eligible for a tax credit and still not buying insurance subjects you to the penalty. So, again, no state exchange means no tax credit and thus fewer people hit by the penalty.

                I had read in several places that the way the law is worded, the tax credits are only available for participation in a state-run exchange, but not for participation in an exchange set up in their state by the federal government; however, this is the first time I've seen it asserted that if there is no state-run exchange, there are no penalties taxes on employers or people for not providing health insurance, either.

                What a mess. Given how intricate and complicated insurance can be, and given that states have had exclusive province over insurance regulation, the idea that the Federal government could rewrite everthing in one single law, and also somehow get it 100% right the first time without giving thought to a potential need for subsequent revision...I kept asking myself, "what are these people thinking?"

                Now I'm tempted to re-phrase, by replacing "what are" with "were." Market innovation has done quite well for us here in the US compared to the rest of the world for decades, and to think that overnight we'll entirely replace market forces with central planning diktats.....
                "Hope is a good thing; maybe the best of things."

                "Beer is a sign that God loves us and wants us to be happy." -- Benjamin Franklin

                "Being Irish, he had an abiding sense of tragedy, which sustained him through temporary periods of joy." -- W. B. Yeats

                "People generally are most impatient with those flaws in others about which they are most ashamed of in themselves." - folk wisdom

                Comment


                • Re: The Sad Case of the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act

                  Originally posted by FreshFish View Post
                  I learned something new about the law, that I didn't know before. Another serious drafting error (assuming the author of this article is accurate, at least....)

                  I had read in several places that the way the law is worded, the tax credits are only available for participation in a state-run exchange, but not for participation in an exchange set up in their state by the federal government; however, this is the first time I've seen it asserted that if there is no state-run exchange, there are no penalties taxes on employers or people for not providing health insurance, either.

                  What a mess. Given how intricate and complicated insurance can be, and given that states have had exclusive province over insurance regulation, the idea that the Federal government could rewrite everthing in one single law, and also somehow get it 100% right the first time without giving thought to a potential need for subsequent revision...I kept asking myself, "what are these people thinking?"

                  Now I'm tempted to re-phrase, by replacing "what are" with "were." Market innovation has done quite well for us here in the US compared to the rest of the world for decades, and to think that overnight we'll entirely replace market forces with central planning diktats.....
                  This is just too funny.

                  "We have to pass the bill to know what's in it." That's otherwise known as signing a contract without reading it. We learned the consequences in the South Park episode "HUMANCENTiPAD". Why is the government setting a bad example for its people by not reading what they agree to do?

                  Comment


                  • Re: The Sad Case of the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act

                    Originally posted by dxmnkd316 View Post
                    HFS

                    That's incredible.
                    You didn't know? The Feds (and retired Feds like me) have a nice assortment. IF they had opened the pool up to the "uncovered", then my premiums may have gone up a bit, but we would have been spared the rigamarole of ACA.
                    CCT '77 & '78
                    4 kids
                    5 grandsons (BCA 7/09, CJA 5/14, JDL 8/14, JFL 6/16, PJL 7/18)
                    1 granddaughter (EML 4/18)

                    ”Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both.”
                    - Benjamin Franklin

                    Banned from the St. Lawrence University Facebook page - March 2016 (But I got better).

                    I want to live forever. So far, so good.

                    Comment


                    • Re: The Sad Case of the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act

                      http://vitals.nbcnews.com/_news/2012...ly-study-finds

                      Look at that, subsidized birth control cuts down on abortions. That should be a win-win for everyone, right? Right?
                      ...(crickets chirping)...

                      Comment


                      • Re: The Sad Case of the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act

                        Originally posted by unofan View Post
                        http://vitals.nbcnews.com/_news/2012...ly-study-finds

                        Look at that, subsidized birth control cuts down on abortions. That should be a win-win for everyone, right? Right?
                        ...(crickets chirping)...
                        Nope. Pro Life groups are anti-sex.
                        **NOTE: The misleading post above was brought to you by Reynold's Wrap and American Steeples, makers of Crosses.

                        Originally Posted by dropthatpuck-Scooby's a lost cause.
                        Originally Posted by First Time, Long Time-Always knew you were nothing but a troll.

                        Comment


                        • Re: The Sad Case of the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act

                          Originally posted by unofan View Post
                          http://vitals.nbcnews.com/_news/2012...ly-study-finds

                          Look at that, subsidized birth control cuts down on abortions. That should be a win-win for everyone, right? Right?
                          ...(crickets chirping)...
                          If a few groups wish to be philanthropists and provide that at their cost, that's their prerogative. To force unwilling groups to do that is just plain wrong, and is the entire crux of the argument.

                          Comment


                          • Re: The Sad Case of the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act

                            Originally posted by FlagDUDE08 View Post
                            If a few groups wish to be philanthropists and provide that at their cost, that's their prerogative. To force unwilling groups to do that is just plain wrong, and is the entire crux of the argument.
                            No question about it. People are being forced to use birth control.
                            **NOTE: The misleading post above was brought to you by Reynold's Wrap and American Steeples, makers of Crosses.

                            Originally Posted by dropthatpuck-Scooby's a lost cause.
                            Originally Posted by First Time, Long Time-Always knew you were nothing but a troll.

                            Comment


                            • Re: The Sad Case of the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act

                              Originally posted by ScoobyDoo View Post
                              Nope. Pro Life groups are anti-sex.
                              Not all sex.
                              Cornell University
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                              • Re: The Sad Case of the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act

                                Originally posted by FlagDUDE08 View Post
                                If a few groups wish to be philanthropists and provide that at their cost, that's their prerogative. To force unwilling groups to do that is just plain wrong, and is the entire crux of the argument.
                                Why should they be exempt from paying for things they hate? I hate us spending money on wars and ridiculous "homeland security." I pay plenty of taxes.

                                Comment

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