The Sad Case of the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act

[Bob Gray]

Re: The Sad Case of the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act

Sounds good to me. What happens to all the money I've paid in already? Do I lose it all? I guess I would have to assume so since GW spent it in Iraq and Afghanistan.

You're too optimistic. It was spent even before the wars. They were paid for with straight borrowing, like the prescription drug benefit.

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: The Sad Case of the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act

You're too optimistic. It was spent even before the wars. They were paid for with straight borrowing, like the prescription drug benefit.

My favorite part of the prescription drug benefit was that we had so much money in Washington we didn't need to raise any revenue to pay for it. That was awesome.

[Bob Gray]

Re: The Sad Case of the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act

My favorite part of the prescription drug benefit was that we had so much money in Washington we didn't need to raise any revenue to pay for it. That was awesome.

That philosophy has mostly reigned for some time now in Washington. The prescription drug benefit is just one of the most obvious examples. When I think about planning for my latter years, I just assume anything I get from Social Security will be an unexpected surprise, and that Medicare will be a shell of its current self, if it exists at all. I don't know. Maybe buying some gold would be as good as anything.

[unofan]

Re: The Sad Case of the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act

You do realize that Ryan's premium support model for Medicare is single-payer, right?

It works exactly the same way as the Federal government employees' health plan: the goverment gives everyone $xx,xxx and then they choose the plan they like.

If you are so much in favor of single payer, why do you oppose the only serious single payer plan out there?

*****https://englishedithelp.files.wordpress.com/2012/05/words1.jpg******

[unofan]

Re: The Sad Case of the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act

Also, since the other thread filled up while I was at work...

So, despite my reluctance, I'll give a partial answer.

Suppose you have a teen-ager, son or daughter, and you give them a credit card to use in emergencies, but only for emergencies. then they run the card up to the limit. what do you do with them?

What I would do with my teens in that situation is how I'd handle the problem you present.

So you'd cut people off from the safety net and let people die in the streets for squandering their health care. Got it.

Again, that's a rational, intellectually consistent position straight from Ayn Rand herself. Don't hide from it just because it makes you admit you're a cold-hearted bastard.

[Bob Gray]

Re: The Sad Case of the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act

Also, since the other thread filled up while I was at work...

So you'd cut people off from the safety net and let people die in the streets for squandering their health care. Got it.

Again, that's a rational, intellectually consistent position straight from Ayn Rand herself. Don't hide from it just because it makes you admit you're a cold-hearted bastard.

So, you'd just hand out unlimited health care for free to everyone. Which makes you unrealistic and thieving from future generations.

[FlagDUDE08]

Re: The Sad Case of the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act

Sounds good to me. What happens to all the money I've paid in already? Do I lose it all? I guess I would have to assume so since GW spent it in Iraq and Afghanistan.

No, anything you paid in you'll get, but no more.

[unofan]

Re: The Sad Case of the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act

So, you'd just hand out unlimited health care for free to everyone. Which makes you unrealistic and thieving from future generations.

Yeah, because every other industrialized nation which has had universal healthcare for decades went bankrupt a long time ago and collapsed into anarchy. Oh wait...

[unofan]

Re: The Sad Case of the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act

No, anything you paid in you'll get, but no more.

Great, so I get to lose out on about 15 years of interest? What a wonderful plan...

[Armadillo]

Re: The Sad Case of the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act

Yeah, because every other industrialized nation which has had universal healthcare for decades went bankrupt a long time ago and collapsed into anarchy. Oh wait...

That Eurozone is humming right along like a well-tuned Lambo, isn't it? Nope, no problems at all. NONE.

[FreshFish]

Re: The Sad Case of the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act

So you'd ... let [your teenager] die in the streets for [running up their credit card]. Got it.

Again, that's a rational, intellectually consistent position straight from Ayn Rand herself. Don't hide from it just because it makes you admit you're a cold-hearted bastard.

Um....I think you missed something along the way somewhere. I asked you for your solution and you consistently refuse to give one. I say I would use techniques that parents use on wayward children and you turn it into something grotesque.

You still have not said how you would address this problem.


My guess is that you have no answer at all, and that enrages you, and so you throw a tantrum by demonizing something reasonable by exaggerating it beyond all recognition, all to hide your [gratuitious insult, subsequently redacted].

[unofan]

Re: The Sad Case of the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act

That Eurozone is humming right along like a well-tuned Lambo, isn't it? Nope, no problems at all. NONE.

The Eurozone as a whole isn't doing too badly - Greece and Spain greatly skew their overall unemployment numbers, and there are far greater issues than universal health care causing their issues like trying to have a unified currency without a unified government backing it. Greece and Spain are hurting because they can't devalue their currency and the other countries don't want to bail them out. It's not unlike what would happen in, say, Mississippi if the Federal government didn't send money to it. Besides, for every Greece, Spain and Italy you have, I can point to a Norway, Germany, or Austria.

Um....I think you missed something along the way somewhere. I asked you for your solution and you consistently refuse to give one. I say I would use techniques that parents use on wayward children and you turn it into something grotesque.

If I had a teenager who ran up a credit card debt on the emergency credit card, I'd cut up the credit card in front of him and tell him he's on his own until he pays me back (in fairness, I wouldn't give a credit card to any kid not in college - so my assumption is the kid should be somewhat self-sufficient anyway). I can only assume by your analogy, you'd cut up the wasteful person's health insurance card and tell him he's on his own when it comes to health care. It was your analogy, afterall.

You still have not said how you would address this problem.

Universal health care to cover all basic medical care just like virtually every other westernized society, paid for by taxes. We already do this for the elderly, poor children, and indirectly to anyone else who shows up at an ER without the ability to pay. Might as well cover the rest of the 18-65 crowd, too, since they'd actually lower the overall per capita cost of the system. If people want to pay extra for things above and beyond what the the single payer system covers, they'd be free to do so.

My guess is that you have no answer at all, and that enrages you, and so you throw a tantrum by demonizing something reasonable by exaggerating it beyond all recognition, all to hide your [gratuitious insult, subsequently redacted].

I get annoyed at people who took Economics 101 or maybe even Intro to Microeconomics, heard "the free market rules," and then conveniently ignore the chapters on externalities, natural monopolies, imperfect markets, and market failures. As I've said on here before, the free market is a means to an end, not an end in and of itself. One of the necessary conditions required for a free market to provide an optimum distribution of goods is an assumption that everyone is acting rationally. As I'm sure everyone here knows from personal experience, pretty much nobody acts rationally all of the time, and there are plenty of people who act irrationally the majority of the time. While experience tells us the free market is generally better at rationing resources for a lot of things, even the vast majority of things, that doesn't mean it's better for everything all of the time. Sometimes the market can be wrong.

You can incentivize all the choices you want (though I find it amusing you will rail against incentives found in the tax code in the very next breath), there are going to be people who don't follow them, even if it makes no logical sense. Do we simply let them slip through the cracks because it's their own **** fault? That sounds great in theory. Less so when you have to walk past them on your way to work in this imperfect real world of ours.

[dxmnkd316]

Re: The Sad Case of the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act

The Eurozone as a whole isn't doing too badly - Greece and Spain greatly skew their overall unemployment numbers, and there are far greater issues than universal health care causing their issues like trying to have a unified currency without a unified government backing it. Greece and Spain are hurting because they can't devalue their currency and the other countries don't want to bail them out. It's not unlike what would happen in, say, Mississippi if the Federal government didn't send money to it. Besides, for every Greece, Spain and Italy you have, I can point to a Norway, Germany, or Austria.

Ireland, Greece, Spain, Portugal, Italy, Cyprus, France (to an extent), and Iceland if we're including countries not in the Eurozone in the Eurozone (Norway???)... I don't know, I'd say only two have decent to good economies (Germany and I'll assume Austria based on your post). So we're talking six or seven that are deep in the red and two in the black. That's not a very good sign for the Eurozone.

All have had massive problems as of late.

[FlagDUDE08]

Re: The Sad Case of the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act

Great, so I get to lose out on about 15 years of interest? What a wonderful plan...

Given the current system's making, you have to live until at least 85, about 5-10 years beyond the country's life expectancy, to break even, according to an AP study. http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2012...king-historic/

[FreshFish]

Re: The Sad Case of the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act

Given the current system's making, you have to live until at least 85, about 5-10 years beyond the country's life expectancy, to break even, according to an AP study. http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2012...king-historic/

It appears that you misunderstand life expectancy.

Life expectancy is different at different ages (and also is different depending upon which mortality table you use...). The life expectancy of someone in their 40s is to a later age than the life expectancy of someone in their 20s because some of those 20-year olds have died along the way to 40.

According to the IRS life expectancy table used to calculate required minimum distributions from retirement plans, the life expectancy of a 65-year old is 20 years. The life expectancy of a 75-year old is 12.5 years (IRS Table V).

That table is probably a bit out of date these days. I read an article recently that asserted that the fastest-growing age cohort in the US is ages 90-99. The news shows used to make a big deal over people turning age 100; they've stopped because so many people are living past 100, it's no longer newsworthy.