The Sad Case of the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act

[Bill]

Re: The Sad Case of the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act

My household net worth, thanks to student loans, is probably around, oh, 75,000 in the red. We even 'waste' thousands a year on interest for things like a mortgage and those blasted student loans again. Yet my wife and I are perfectly capable of more than meeting our monthly expenses. But using your logic I should be running around like chicken little.

Point being, at this point in time there's no reason to be going all apocolyptic about things like hyperinflation, bankruptcy, cutting social security, reverting to the gold standard, adding a national sales tax, or anything else extreme, unless you actively want one of those extremes. The federal debt is an issue, but not the most immediate one. And certainly some of the fixes being proposed are not as immediately necessary as the people pushing them are trying to sell them.

Could they potentially happen in the future? Sure, just as the sun could go nova tomorrow and we'd all be dead anyway. Is it even reasonably likely in the forseeable future? Not really, unless people actively strive to push us there.

So do you think we can pay our bills or don't you? If yes , how do you think Washington is going to be able to do that? And I'm talking about paying the total debt, including unfunded liabilities.

[unofan]

Re: The Sad Case of the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act

How can you say we are economically capable of paying our bills?

My household net worth, thanks to student loans, is probably around, oh, 75,000 in the red. We even 'waste' thousands a year on interest for things like a mortgage and those blasted student loans again. Yet my wife and I are perfectly capable of more than meeting our monthly expenses. But using your logic I should be running around like chicken little.

Point being, at this point in time there's no reason to be going all apocolyptic about things like hyperinflation, bankruptcy, cutting social security, reverting to the gold standard, adding a national sales tax, or anything else extreme, unless you actively want one of those extremes. The federal debt is an issue, but not the most immediate one. And certainly some of the fixes being proposed are not as immediately necessary as the people pushing them are trying to sell them.

Could they potentially happen in the future? Sure, just as the sun could go nova tomorrow and we'd all be dead anyway. Is it even reasonably likely in the forseeable future? Not really, unless people actively strive to push us there.

[Bill]

Re: The Sad Case of the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act

Where I disagree is the analogy that because the debt is a big scary number, we've somehow maxed out our credit card or otherwise are in danger of somehow not being economically capable of paying our bills. Again, when the interest on our debts is as low as it is, you either have to admit that our creditors feel absolutely safe they'll get paid back, or you believe the credit market is wrong.

How can you say we are economically capable of paying our bills? Total household net worth figures for the U.S. generally run in the mid 60s trillions of dollars. If you combine the current debt of 16 trillion with even conservative unfunded liability figures (45-50 trillion) you're right up in the ballpark of total household net worth. Surely you don't want the government to confiscate everyone's money to try and pay our bills. (And there are unfunded liability figures that go as high as 200 trillion). Now if you're not worried about the ethics of paying our bills, certainly the government has the capability of continuing to create more and more money, and paying off our creditors with increasingly worthless dollars that way, but the resulting inflationary prices for everything would be extremely painful for almost all Americans, especially the poor and middle class. Potentially we could even have hyperinflation going that route.

[FlagDUDE08]

Re: The Sad Case of the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act

Clearly, neither of you have ever looked at the cost difference of a family plan versus multiple individual plans.

And you've never seen just how big of a ripoff student health plans are. They're probably better than an individual plan on the open market, but it was inferior to every plan I've ever seen through an employer.

Clearly, you're trying to make a case out of something that occurred even before any of this act began debate. Also, I love how you're calling someone who is barely four years removed from college to be ignorant about student plans. You've just proved that you cannot add any substance to a debate, so you get to enjoy my ignore list.

[unofan]

Re: The Sad Case of the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act

Um, no it doesn't "save" anything it merely shifts the cost from the students to whomever is paying the premiums on the parents' plan.

That doesn't save money, it just passes the beneficiary of revenue to someone else.

Clearly, neither of you have ever looked at the cost difference of a family plan versus multiple individual plans.

And you've never seen just how big of a ripoff student health plans are. They're probably better than an individual plan on the open market, but it was inferior to every plan I've ever seen through an employer.

[unofan]

Re: The Sad Case of the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act

Do you recognize the irony here? You recognize the danger for people to borrow more money to pay interest on money they've already borrowed on an individual level yet you are in favor of the Federal government borrowing money to pay interest on the national debt?

Ignoring, again, the fact that comparing the Federal government to an individual, a household, a business, or even a local government is like comparing apples to zebras, (and also ignoring the fact that you're taking my use of your analogy for health care purposes, and spinning it into an indictment of the federal budget)...

I am in favor of the Federal Gov't paying its bills. In a perfect world, we wouldn't need to keep increasing the debt to do so. Of course, in a perfect world, we also wouldn't be in a recession, either.

Where I disagree is the analogy that because the debt is a big scary number, we've somehow maxed out our credit card or otherwise are in danger of somehow not being economically capable of paying our bills. Again, when the interest on our debts is as low as it is, you either have to admit that our creditors feel absolutely safe they'll get paid back, or you believe the credit market is wrong.

[FlagDUDE08]

Re: The Sad Case of the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act

Do you recognize the irony here? You recognize the danger for people to borrow more money to pay interest on money they've already borrowed on an individual level yet you are in favor of the Federal government borrowing money to pay interest on the national debt?

I AM ABOVE THE LAW! *combover falls*
*takes out hair gel to replace combover*

[FreshFish]

Re: The Sad Case of the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act

If I had a teenager who ran up a credit card debt on the emergency credit card, I'd cut up the credit card in front of him and tell him he's on his own until he pays me back.

Do you recognize the irony here? You recognize the danger for people to borrow more money to pay interest on money they've already borrowed on an individual level yet you are in favor of the Federal government borrowing money to pay interest on the national debt?

[FlagDUDE08]

Re: The Sad Case of the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act

This is their obvious play going forward on health care. Everybody is always PO'ed about their insurance. Now the Echo Chamber can take all that frustration and refocus it on the government. This is another reason why they should just as well have gone to single payer rather than this corporate privateer model -- the government will now take all the blame for what is still a free enterprise system (c.f., energy policy).

Like abortion, this will become another hobby horse for the GOP to tub-thump against in perpetuity.

The last thing we need is a single point of failure. This is what has been society's downfall in history.

[Kepler]

Re: The Sad Case of the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act

I ripped some knuckledragger to shreds at work over something like this. Our insurance has always been extremely disappointing, but this guy tried to chalk this year's policy up to the ACA. Methinks Drudge or Rush is telling all you guys to start blaming any change in your coverage on the law.

This is their obvious play going forward on health care. Everybody is always PO'ed about their insurance. Now the Echo Chamber can take all that frustration and refocus it on the government. This is another reason why they should just as well have gone to single payer rather than this corporate privateer model -- the government will now take all the blame for what is still a free enterprise system (c.f., energy policy).

Like abortion, this will become another hobby horse for the GOP to tub-thump against in perpetuity.

[FlagDUDE08]

Re: The Sad Case of the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act

Um, no it doesn't "save" anything it merely shifts the cost from the students to whomever is paying the premiums on the parents' plan.

Most of the time, that's the same source of income.

[FreshFish]

Re: The Sad Case of the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act

Most students under the PPACA won't need it because they'll still be on their parents plan till their 26. That should SAVE money.

Um, no it doesn't "save" anything it merely shifts the cost from the students to whomever is paying the premiums on the parents' plan.

[FlagDUDE08]

Re: The Sad Case of the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act

Most students under the PPACA won't need it because they'll still be on their parents plan till their 26. That should SAVE money.

That doesn't save money, it just passes the beneficiary of revenue to someone else.

[Rover]

Re: The Sad Case of the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act

Anyone here a student and has to buy the school's health insurance? I hearing that premiums have gone up quite a bit due to PPACA.

I ripped some knuckledragger to shreds at work over something like this. Our insurance has always been extremely disappointing, but this guy tried to chalk this year's policy up to the ACA. Methinks Drudge or Rush is telling all you guys to start blaming any change in your coverage on the law.

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: The Sad Case of the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act

I had it for 3 years from 2006-2009. It was a ripoff back then, just like almost every other higher education expense.

Most students under the PPACA won't need it because they'll still be on their parents plan till their 26. That should SAVE money.