The Sad Case of the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act

[Bob Gray]

Re: The Sad Case of the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act

Ever heard of Social Security?

I've been told that's accounted for separately and is in a lock box, and all. Have I been misled?

[Bob Gray]

Re: The Sad Case of the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act

When I wrote "cost" I meant... "cost." Not the amount funded by the government for the program but the true costs. How the government pays for it is a whole other question (just as if not more important, and upon which I think we agree very closely). Take the wars as another example. They cost a certain amount, somewhere between $2T and $3T. The government borrowed the money rather than raising revenue to pay for them. That was terrible fiscal policy, but it had nothing to do with the merits of the wars (which were in large part also terrible policy, but in a whole different way).

I am all for paying as we go. This is something I am willing to pay for. The political debate should be about what are we willing to pay for, not (as they are now) whether we are willing to pay. We gotta pay, period. Bills are bills.

You can't separate deciding to do a program from what the program costs. Thinking like that is part of what's gotten the federal government in a horrible fiscal mess. Everyone agrees the overall cost of things should go down if possible. That's a no brainer. But, if you have the government spend more and more money it doesn't have, somehow telling yourself that some money is saved in the private sector (these kinds of determinations are notoriously fuzzy) is of little use when the federal deficit eventually crushes us all.

[Bob Gray]

Re: The Sad Case of the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act

I'm more questioning your qualifications Bob. I've already rendered my verdict as to your judgement...

You'd be surprised at my qualifications.

Maybe you can pull a Roberts with your verdict?

[FreshFish]

Re: The Sad Case of the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act

Overshadowed by excitement that surrounded the mandate that was repealed and replaced by a tax was the 7-2 ruling that states could opt out of the Medicare expansion provision if they wanted without forfeiting existing Medicare dollars that come from the Federal government.

[Rover]

Re: The Sad Case of the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act

Overshadowed by excitement that surrounded the mandate that was repealed and replaced by a tax was the 7-2 ruling that states could opt out of the Medicare expansion provision if they wanted without forfeiting existing Medicare dollars that come from the Federal government.

I hope you're getting paid to follow the "crushing loss is really a resounding victory" theme that you're slavishly obeying since its the same attempt the RNC, Romney campaign, Congress etc is attempting today. Its pretty d@mn amusing I must say!

The funny part about this point is that while states can opt out of the expansion, that wouldn't stop the feds from collecting your citizens' tax revenue to finance Obamacare. It would just be going to other states instead of yours. Frankly that would be about time as wealthy successful liberal states tend to finance shiftless conservative ones. Good luck running on that platform...

[Rover]

Re: The Sad Case of the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act

You'd be surprised at my qualifications.

Kissing Jan Brewer's rear end? I don't think that counts...

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: The Sad Case of the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act

The funny part about this point is that while states can opt out of the expansion, that wouldn't stop the feds from collecting your citizens' tax revenue to finance Obamacare. It would just be going to other states instead of yours. Frankly that would be about time as wealthy successful liberal states tend to finance shiftless conservative ones. Good luck running on that platform...

It would be about time.

[Kepler]

Re: The Sad Case of the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act

Great quote from Bruce Bartlett:

A government with the power to force us to buy health insurance can also force restaurants to serve black people.

There's also a really wonderful irony in the Neocons over at NRO screaming their heads off about Obamacare when their dream state, Israel, has full on socialized medicine.

[Kepler]

Re: The Sad Case of the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act

The funny part about this point is that while states can opt out of the expansion, that wouldn't stop the feds from collecting your citizens' tax revenue to finance Obamacare. It would just be going to other states instead of yours. Frankly that would be about time as wealthy successful liberal states tend to finance shiftless conservative ones. Good luck running on that platform...

Republican cranks running in slave state primaries talk about pulling out of Medicare and Medicaid all the time. When then win, somehow they never actually do it. I wonder why?

It would be very funny, though, to see the governors and legislatures of southern states actually exercise their opt out. Rugged individualism sounds great until Tea Party members realize its their own kids who are benefitting from them (at a huge discount, since liberal states fund the conservative states).

[joecct]

Re: The Sad Case of the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act

Republican cranks running in slave state primaries talk about pulling out of Medicare and Medicaid all the time. When then win, somehow they never actually do it. I wonder why?

It would be very funny, though, to see the governors and legislatures of southern states actually exercise their opt out. Rugged individualism sounds great until Tea Party members realize its their own kids who are benefitting from them (as a huge discount, since liberal states fund conservative states).

Kepler

We live in a slave state -

of course the loony left is in charge, not the loony right.

[Kepler]

Re: The Sad Case of the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act

Kepler

We live in a slave state -

of course the loony left is in charge, not the loony right.

Well, we were about 2/3s free. We didn't secede, but about 1/3 of enlistments went to Team Aryan.

And until November, the loony right is still running my district.

*****http://www.politics1.com/news/moon-bartlett.jpg******

[Rover]

Re: The Sad Case of the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act

Republican cranks running in slave state primaries talk about pulling out of Medicare and Medicaid all the time. When then win, somehow they never actually do it. I wonder why?

It would be very funny, though, to see the governors and legislatures of southern states actually exercise their opt out. Rugged individualism sounds great until Tea Party members realize its their own kids who are benefitting from them (at a huge discount, since liberal states fund the conservative states).

Bobby Jindal's my favorite out of this knuckledragger crowd. Between the wall to wall poverty across the entire state and the feds picking up the tab to rebuild New Orleans, I'm not sure there's another state out there that gets so much federal largesse. If he wants to start denying federal dollars be my guest. If he does it enough maybe the rest of us wil break even on our payments to his state.

[Kepler]

Re: The Sad Case of the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act

Bobby Jindal's my favorite out of this knuckledragger crowd. Between the wall to wall poverty across the entire state and the feds picking up the tab to rebuild New Orleans, I'm not sure there's another state out there that gets so much federal largesse. If he wants to start denying federal dollars be my guest. If he does it enough maybe the rest of us wil break even on our payments to his state.

Although Louisiana is so corrupt they would probably find a way to get all the money anyway.

I can see Texas getting away with it. The other Usual Suspects have economies roughly equivalent to the Sudan.

[FlagDUDE08]

Re: The Sad Case of the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act

I've been told that's accounted for separately and is in a lock box, and all. Have I been misled?

You have. Presidents have been stealing from it for years.

[FlagDUDE08]

Re: The Sad Case of the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act

Republican cranks running in slave state primaries talk about pulling out of Medicare and Medicaid all the time. When then win, somehow they never actually do it. I wonder why?

It would be very funny, though, to see the governors and legislatures of southern states actually exercise their opt out. Rugged individualism sounds great until Tea Party members realize its their own kids who are benefitting from them (at a huge discount, since liberal states fund the conservative states).

I love how the federal government owning a decent percentage of the land in many of the red states means that they're being funded by blue states. Don't want to sell that land, eh? You might actually get some production in this country.