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The Sad Case of the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act

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  • Re: The Sad Case of the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act

    Originally posted by FlagDUDE08 View Post
    That's why I like the selection of Roberts. He did his job. He didn't do a bunch of partisan codswallop, like the others. I disagree with the ruling, but the process must be respected, and as the Chief Justice said, there are other ways to repeal the law, such as Congressional action.
    I remain neutral on the law...as I don't think we have enough info on which to know its real impact. But I really like Roberts approach also...refreshing. Here's a take on that:

    Legal scholars unsurprised by Roberts
    By Tom Watkins, CNN

    Legal scholars expressed little surprise Thursday that the conservative chief justice of the United States -- John G. Roberts Jr. -- proved to be the key vote in upholding the constitutionality of the Affordable Care Act.

    "Had the court ruled as the four dissenters would have had it -- in a 5-4 decision, red versus blue -- that the signature act of a Democratic administration was unconstitutional, I think that would have been a very serious threat to the legitimacy of the court," said Timothy S. Jost, a professor at Washington and Lee University School of Law in Washington.

    "I think Americans are already very skeptical about the rule of law in the United States and believe that the court is essentially a third political branch," he said in a telephone interview. The 57-year-old Roberts may have been thinking about the court's perceived legitimacy and about his own legacy when he crafted the decision, which couldn't have been an easy one, Jost said.

    In 2005, when then-President George W. Bush tapped Roberts to be the 17th chief justice of the United States, then-Sen. Barack Obama voted against his confirmation. During his confirmation hearing, Roberts said he saw his role as a potential justice to make rulings based on the Constitution and not to set policy -- or, as he described it, "to call balls and strikes, not pitch or bat."

    "I come before this committee with no agenda, no platform," he told the Senate Judiciary Committee at the time. "I will approach every case with an open mind." Since then, Roberts' stances on campaign finance and affirmative action had led some observers to brand him a judicial activist.

    But Neal Katyal, a professor of law at Georgetown University in Washington, said that Roberts, "more than almost any justice on the court today, appreciates the institutional role of the Supreme Court and American democracy. He's a student of history, and I think today's decision was a really resounding reflection of the chief justice's values, which are (that) law is not just politics and the Constitution is not just politics, and we should think about decisions impartially and dispassionately and come to the right ones."
    Go Gophers!

    Comment


    • Re: The Sad Case of the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act

      Young people in particular who take the time to read through the ruling likely will feel "used." It is made abundantly clear throughout that young people will deliberately be overcharged in order to help pay for care for people in their 50s and early 60s.

      I read through Roberts' entire opinion this morning, exceptionally well-written I agree...."We do not consider whether the Act embodies sound policies." hmm.....why even say that, unless.....?

      The guaranteed-issue and community-rating reforms do not, however, address the issue of healthy individuals who choose not to purchase insurance to cover potential healthcare needs. In fact, the reforms sharply exacerbate that problem, by providing an incentive for individuals to delay purchasing health insurance until they become sick, relying on the promise of guaranteed and affordable coverage. The reforms also threaten to impose massive new costs on insurers, who are required to accept unhealthy individuals but prohibited from charging them rates necessary to pay for their coverage. This will lead insurers to significantly increase premiums on everyone.

      The individual mandate was Congress’s solution to these problems. By requiring that individuals purchase health insurance, the mandate prevents cost-shifting by those who would otherwise go without it. In addition, the mandate forces into the insurance risk pool more healthy individuals, whose premiums on average will be higher than their health care expenses. This allows insurers to subsidize the costs of covering the unhealthy individuals the reforms require them to accept.
      [emphasis added]

      OR

      The mandate primarily affects healthy, often young adults who are less likely to need significant health care and have other priorities for spending their money. It is precisely because these individuals, as an actuarial class, incur relatively low healthcare costs that the mandate helps counter the effect of forcing insurance companies to cover others who impose greater costs than their premiums are allowed to reflect. See 42 U. S. C. ยง18091(2)(I)
      [emphasis added]

      This is a terrible law, and we all know it.

      Members of this Court are vested with the authority to interpret the law; we possess neither the expertise nor the prerogative to make policy judgments. Those decisions are entrusted to our Nation’s elected leaders, who can be thrown out of office if the people disagree with them. It is not our job to protect the people from the consequences of their political choices.
      "Hope is a good thing; maybe the best of things."

      "Beer is a sign that God loves us and wants us to be happy." -- Benjamin Franklin

      "Being Irish, he had an abiding sense of tragedy, which sustained him through temporary periods of joy." -- W. B. Yeats

      "People generally are most impatient with those flaws in others about which they are most ashamed of in themselves." - folk wisdom

      Comment


      • Re: The Sad Case of the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act

        Of course young people are going to pay more. Nobody is going to ask the selfish Baby Boomers to pay for their Health Care out of pocket.
        **NOTE: The misleading post above was brought to you by Reynold's Wrap and American Steeples, makers of Crosses.

        Originally Posted by dropthatpuck-Scooby's a lost cause.
        Originally Posted by First Time, Long Time-Always knew you were nothing but a troll.

        Comment


        • Re: The Sad Case of the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act

          You know what I would love to do... co-write a bill that is 2000 pages long and sneak in a clause that congressperson or senator who votes "aye" is to be sewed together as a Human Centipede.

          Comment


          • Re: The Sad Case of the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act

            Originally posted by FreshFish View Post
            Young people in particular who take the time to read through the ruling likely will feel "used." It is made abundantly clear throughout that young people will deliberately be overcharged in order to help pay for care for people in their 50s and early 60s.

            I read through Roberts' entire opinion this morning, exceptionally well-written I agree...."We do not consider whether the Act embodies sound policies." hmm.....why even say that, unless.....?

            [emphasis added]

            OR

            [emphasis added]

            This is a terrible law, and we all know it.
            Umm....no s h ! t, that was the whole point of the insurers themselves when they signed up to back the law. Ordering them to cover everybody including those with pre-existing conditions while not putting healthier people into the system was a one way ticket to bankrupcy, which is also why the Obama admin argued that if the mandate was struck down the requirement to cover those with pre-existing conditions should go with it.

            Any other startling relevations for us today, like how Mittens is going to capitalize on all of this even though he supported all the aspects of the law as a governor?
            Legally drunk???? If its "legal", what's the ------- problem?!? - George Carlin

            Ever notice how everybody who drives slower than you is an idiot, and everybody who drives faster is a maniac? - George Carlin

            "I've never seen so much reason and bullsh*t contained in ONE MAN."

            Comment


            • Re: The Sad Case of the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act

              Originally posted by FlagDUDE08 View Post
              You know what I would love to do... co-write a bill that is 2000 pages long...
              I'm not sure that you even know 2000 words, let alone writing 2000 pages, and besides that would pretty much exhaust your supply of crayons wouldn't it?
              Legally drunk???? If its "legal", what's the ------- problem?!? - George Carlin

              Ever notice how everybody who drives slower than you is an idiot, and everybody who drives faster is a maniac? - George Carlin

              "I've never seen so much reason and bullsh*t contained in ONE MAN."

              Comment


              • Re: The Sad Case of the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act

                Originally posted by Rover View Post
                I'm not sure that you even know 2000 words, let alone writing 2000 pages, and besides that would pretty much exhaust your supply of crayons wouldn't it?
                What colour am I using in the creation of this reply?

                Comment


                • Re: The Sad Case of the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act

                  Originally posted by FlagDUDE08 View Post
                  What colour am I using in the creation of this reply?
                  Why Cherry and White, of course!!
                  "Hope is a good thing; maybe the best of things."

                  "Beer is a sign that God loves us and wants us to be happy." -- Benjamin Franklin

                  "Being Irish, he had an abiding sense of tragedy, which sustained him through temporary periods of joy." -- W. B. Yeats

                  "People generally are most impatient with those flaws in others about which they are most ashamed of in themselves." - folk wisdom

                  Comment


                  • Re: The Sad Case of the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act

                    Originally posted by ScoobyDoo View Post
                    Of course young people are going to pay more. Nobody is going to ask the selfish Baby Boomers to pay for their Health Care out of pocket.
                    Although I'll join you in 98% of your screeds against the Boomers, in this case it makes sense that young people will pay more, either directly or via taxes. That's how safety net systems work. People without children subsidize people with children. People with jobs subsidize retirees. People without health problems (yet) subsidize people with health problems.

                    The basic question always comes down to what do you do, today, with people in need? Do you turn them away from the ER or do you treat them? That is the central question of all of these programs, stripped of all the political nonsense on both sides. Do you say we are a society that will help people in need, or do you say "we owe each other nothing, I'm alright, so go die"?
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                    Comment


                    • Re: The Sad Case of the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act

                      Originally posted by Kepler View Post
                      Although I'll join you in 98% of your screeds against the Boomers, in this case it makes sense that young people will pay more, either directly or via taxes. That's how safety net systems work. People without children subsidize people with children. People with jobs subsidize retirees. People without health problems (yet) subsidize people with health problems.

                      The basic question always comes down to what do you do, today, with people in need? Do you turn them away from the ER or do you treat them? That is the central question of all of these programs, stripped of all the political nonsense on both sides. Do you say we are a society that will help people in need, or do you say "we owe each other nothing, I'm alright, so go die"?
                      But we apply that so inconsistenty across different areas of society, almost exclusively to the benefits of older people. How about we charge everyone the same for auto insurance, instead of sticking it to young people? Those with the power create subsidies which benefit them at the expense of the less powerful, without returning the favor when the subsidy would flow the other way.
                      Originally posted by Priceless
                      Good to see you're so reasonable.
                      Originally posted by ScoobyDoo
                      Very well, said.
                      Originally posted by Rover
                      A fair assessment Bob.

                      Comment


                      • Re: The Sad Case of the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act

                        So how many companies do we think will drop coverage for their employees? Its pretty simple math. They can either pay $18K to cover them or pay a $2K tax.

                        How many people are going to skip buying coverage until they need it? For them its either pay a $700 tax or pay thousands to get coverage.

                        Can anyone else see how this whole thing is going to blow up?
                        "When plunder becomes a way of life for a group of men living together in society, they create for themselves in the course of time a legal system that authorizes it and a moral code that justifies it." - Frederic Bastiat

                        Comment


                        • Re: The Sad Case of the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act

                          Originally posted by MinnFan View Post
                          So how many companies do we think will drop coverage for their employees? Its pretty simple math. They can either pay $18K to cover them or pay a $2K tax.

                          How many people are going to skip buying coverage until they need it? For them its either pay a $700 tax or pay thousands to get coverage.

                          Can anyone else see how this whole thing is going to blow up?
                          I can. It will be very interesting to see if that is in fact what happens. I won't gamble without insurance so I will not be testing the waters.
                          **NOTE: The misleading post above was brought to you by Reynold's Wrap and American Steeples, makers of Crosses.

                          Originally Posted by dropthatpuck-Scooby's a lost cause.
                          Originally Posted by First Time, Long Time-Always knew you were nothing but a troll.

                          Comment


                          • Re: The Sad Case of the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act

                            Originally posted by ScoobyDoo View Post
                            I can. It will be very interesting to see if that is in fact what happens. I won't gamble without insurance so I will not be testing the waters.
                            Why not? They have to cover/treat you no matter what.

                            The estimates I've seen is that 20 million people will pay the fine/tax instead of the 4 million that is projected in the scoring.
                            "When plunder becomes a way of life for a group of men living together in society, they create for themselves in the course of time a legal system that authorizes it and a moral code that justifies it." - Frederic Bastiat

                            Comment


                            • Re: The Sad Case of the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act

                              Originally posted by MinnFan View Post
                              Why not? They have to cover/treat you no matter what.

                              The estimates I've seen is that 20 million people will pay the fine/tax instead of the 4 million that is projected in the scoring.
                              It never works that way. The one thing I know for sure after living 44 years on this planet is there is no free lunch.
                              **NOTE: The misleading post above was brought to you by Reynold's Wrap and American Steeples, makers of Crosses.

                              Originally Posted by dropthatpuck-Scooby's a lost cause.
                              Originally Posted by First Time, Long Time-Always knew you were nothing but a troll.

                              Comment


                              • Re: The Sad Case of the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act

                                Originally posted by ScoobyDoo View Post
                                It never works that way. The one thing I know for sure after living 44 years on this planet is there is no free lunch.
                                Not on a societal level. But, people have figured out that they can get others to pay for their lunches, at least for awhile, so on a short term micro level there are free lunches for some.
                                Originally posted by Priceless
                                Good to see you're so reasonable.
                                Originally posted by ScoobyDoo
                                Very well, said.
                                Originally posted by Rover
                                A fair assessment Bob.

                                Comment

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