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The Sad Case of the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act

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  • Re: The Sad Case of the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act

    Originally posted by GrinCDXX View Post
    But in your world it should be completely legal for hospital staff to force someone to show proof of ability to pay before they prevent them from bleeding out?
    Preventing someone from bleeding out is not all that expensive. Even an ambulance ride isn't that bad. The real expense occurs on the back end, after the patient is admitted to the hospital (ICU or otherwise) - there's plenty of time to decide if they are worth saving before the bulk of the expenditure.

    The question is: should we make that decision?
    If you don't change the world today, how can it be any better tomorrow?

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    • Re: The Sad Case of the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act

      Originally posted by FlagDUDE08 View Post
      Someone didn't read post #206...
      I read it but like most conservative ideas its more applicable in fantasyland than the good ol' USA. Perhaps you can keep us updated on how your petition drive is going to get your proposal on the ballot?
      Legally drunk???? If its "legal", what's the ------- problem?!? - George Carlin

      Ever notice how everybody who drives slower than you is an idiot, and everybody who drives faster is a maniac? - George Carlin

      "I've never seen so much reason and bullsh*t contained in ONE MAN."

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      • Re: The Sad Case of the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act

        Originally posted by FlagDUDE08 View Post
        I forgot that liberals lack common sense.
        Ahh yes, a vague personal attack based on...nothing.

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        • Re: The Sad Case of the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act

          Originally posted by LynahFan View Post
          Preventing someone from bleeding out is not all that expensive. Even an ambulance ride isn't that bad. The real expense occurs on the back end, after the patient is admitted to the hospital (ICU or otherwise) - there's plenty of time to decide if they are worth saving before the bulk of the expenditure.

          The question is: should we make that decision?
          Yes, we should. We need to start providing long term care solely based on ability to pay. And given how much my visit to the hospital this week for a kidney stone cost, my guess is we'll be cutting some major dollars very quickly. We may be able to pay off all our debt with the money saved and we'll only have to kill off a bunch of poor people to do it.
          **NOTE: The misleading post above was brought to you by Reynold's Wrap and American Steeples, makers of Crosses.

          Originally Posted by dropthatpuck-Scooby's a lost cause.
          Originally Posted by First Time, Long Time-Always knew you were nothing but a troll.

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          • Re: The Sad Case of the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act

            Originally posted by FlagDUDE08 View Post
            So because people aren't productive and self reliant, we have to reward them for that fact? No wonder people behave badly in this society. The government promotes it!

            How is an Emergency Room denying care unworkable? It involves a two letter word.
            Originally posted by FlagDUDE08 View Post
            That'd be up to the judgement of the ER. Don't assume the negative case. Just because they have the ability to deny you doesn't necessarily mean they will.
            Do you really think it is possible to deny care? It is against the law to deny care to someone who needs urgent care. Have you not been paying attention? Anyone who doesn't provide care puts their license and the Hospital at risk for liability. The Insurance co and the hospitals tried to stop that but the law is if the patient feels there is an emergency you cannot assume they should know it wasn't one and have to treat. You do not need to provide ongoing chronic care but you are responsible to make sure they are stable enough to be discharged. This means if someone comes in after trauma you could spend a few hundred thousand dollars stabilizing a really messed up person before you can stop.
            Last edited by leswp1; 04-04-2012, 11:06 PM.

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            • Re: The Sad Case of the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act

              Les

              That's the metric right now. It's a good one IMO. But what set of future circumstances could cause that to change?
              CCT '77 & '78
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              ”Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both.”
              - Benjamin Franklin

              Banned from the St. Lawrence University Facebook page - March 2016 (But I got better).

              I want to live forever. So far, so good.

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              • Re: The Sad Case of the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act

                Originally posted by joecct View Post
                Les
                That's the metric right now. It's a good one IMO. But what set of future circumstances could cause that to change?
                I can't see one. That would be letting people die and that is not going to happen. People think asst suicide shouldn't happen and those people are petitioning to die. Can't imagine a scenario where the general public would allow someone to die because they had no insurance. If someone comes in with a trauma, looks like they aren't covered, dies and then oops they find the coverage- hell to pay!

                Some people have a strange dicotomy- they are incensed that people want to have assisted suicide or have an abortion yet they are incensed that people might receive free care and be freeloading. For those who are saying it is their Christian values for the former- conforming to what Jesus said- we are to take care of the sick, poor and weak. I confuses me to no end the same people who reject people doing things to their own body will with equal vehemence reject a means to help someone take care of that same body while blaming the person for not doing so. They are willing to force someone into continuing medical care, against their will but if someone wants medical care they reject the notion of providing it. I don't get it. I can't explain it away by saying the patient know better and be prepared. The person who is trying to die is not prepared to pay for further care either.

                I am not articulating this well but it just makes no sense!

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                • Re: The Sad Case of the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act

                  Originally posted by leswp1 View Post
                  I can't see one. That would be letting people die and that is not going to happen. People think asst suicide shouldn't happen and those people are petitioning to die. Can't imagine a scenario where the general public would allow someone to die because they had no insurance. If someone comes in with a trauma, looks like they aren't covered, dies and then oops they find the coverage- hell to pay!

                  Some people have a strange dicotomy- they are incensed that people want to have assisted suicide or have an abortion yet they are incensed that people might receive free care and be freeloading. For those who are saying it is their Christian values for the former- conforming to what Jesus said- we are to take care of the sick, poor and weak. I confuses me to no end the same people who reject people doing things to their own body will with equal vehemence reject a means to help someone take care of that same body while blaming the person for not doing so. They are willing to force someone into continuing medical care, against their will but if someone wants medical care they reject the notion of providing it. I don't get it. I can't explain it away by saying the patient know better and be prepared. The person who is trying to die is not prepared to pay for further care either.

                  I am not articulating this well but it just makes no sense!
                  Its makes very good sense. Its proof once again that conservative ideas such as the ones Flag is trying to promote have no application in the real world.
                  Legally drunk???? If its "legal", what's the ------- problem?!? - George Carlin

                  Ever notice how everybody who drives slower than you is an idiot, and everybody who drives faster is a maniac? - George Carlin

                  "I've never seen so much reason and bullsh*t contained in ONE MAN."

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                  • Re: The Sad Case of the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act

                    Originally posted by Rover View Post
                    Its makes very good sense. Its proof once again that conservative ideas such as the ones Flag is trying to promote have no application in the real world.
                    THis isn't about 'conservatives'. There are lots of people on both sides of the aisle who have those thoughts.

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                    • Re: The Sad Case of the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act

                      Originally posted by Rover View Post
                      Its proof once again that conservative ideas ... have no application in the real world.
                      Sounds like you are ready to toss the Constitution aside, eh? as so many of the drafters were classic conservatives. I've always found The Autobiography of Benjamin Franklin a very inspiring and helpful book myself, sounds like you have no use for it, either.

                      What is it about personal integrity that offends you so much, anyway?
                      "Hope is a good thing; maybe the best of things."

                      "Beer is a sign that God loves us and wants us to be happy." -- Benjamin Franklin

                      "Being Irish, he had an abiding sense of tragedy, which sustained him through temporary periods of joy." -- W. B. Yeats

                      "People generally are most impatient with those flaws in others about which they are most ashamed of in themselves." - folk wisdom

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                      • Re: The Sad Case of the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act

                        Originally posted by FreshFish View Post
                        Sounds like you are ready to toss the Constitution aside, eh? as so many of the drafters were classic conservatives. I've always found The Autobiography of Benjamin Franklin a very inspiring and helpful book myself, sounds like you have no use for it, either.

                        What is it about personal integrity that offends you so much, anyway?
                        I think it's because it involves effort.

                        Comment


                        • Re: The Sad Case of the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act

                          Originally posted by FreshFish View Post
                          Sounds like you are ready to toss the Constitution aside, eh? as so many of the drafters were classic conservatives. I've always found The Autobiography of Benjamin Franklin a very inspiring and helpful book myself, sounds like you have no use for it, either.

                          What is it about personal integrity that offends you so much, anyway?
                          Don't take Rover seriously. He's all about yanking chains. He used to be better at it though.
                          Originally posted by Priceless
                          Good to see you're so reasonable.
                          Originally posted by ScoobyDoo
                          Very well, said.
                          Originally posted by Rover
                          A fair assessment Bob.

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                          • Re: The Sad Case of the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act

                            Originally posted by Bob Gray View Post
                            Don't take Rover seriously. He's all about yanking chains. He used to be better at it though.
                            So am I. Must be why I have over 12,000 posts.

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                            • Re: The Sad Case of the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act

                              Originally posted by FreshFish View Post
                              Sounds like you are ready to toss the Constitution aside, eh? as so many of the drafters were classic conservatives. I've always found The Autobiography of Benjamin Franklin a very inspiring and helpful book myself, sounds like you have no use for it, either.

                              What is it about personal integrity that offends you so much, anyway?
                              Ummm..no they weren't, but nice try. I'll start with how there's no state sponsored religion in the Constitution, something many a conservative would like to see provided that religion was their own.

                              On the other hand, they did have slavery as being legal for a time, so perhaps you're right about their conservative leanings...
                              Legally drunk???? If its "legal", what's the ------- problem?!? - George Carlin

                              Ever notice how everybody who drives slower than you is an idiot, and everybody who drives faster is a maniac? - George Carlin

                              "I've never seen so much reason and bullsh*t contained in ONE MAN."

                              Comment


                              • Re: The Sad Case of the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act

                                Originally posted by ScoobyDoo View Post
                                Awesome. We agree. Stop them at the door. No insurance, no proof you can pay, no service. That means of course if you're bleeding to the point of death at the Emergency Room and can pay but have no proof that you can or could we're just going to have to let you die cause what if you couldn't?
                                I don't think you need to deny them care in true emergency situtations. You just need to be willing to stick them with the bill. Make it so the hosiptal can garnish their wages or receive a portion of their gov't benefits if they don't pay. Doesn't take care of all senarios, but he does provide a disincentive for many of them.
                                "When plunder becomes a way of life for a group of men living together in society, they create for themselves in the course of time a legal system that authorizes it and a moral code that justifies it." - Frederic Bastiat

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