SOPA and PIPA: Your thoughts on free speech!

[Twitch Boy]

Re: SOPA and PIPA: Your thoughts on free speech!

Shiat just got real. Megaupload shut down, founder and several employees indicted on piracy charges.

[joecct]

Re: SOPA and PIPA: Your thoughts on free speech!

SOPA co-sponsors
Rep Amodei, Mark E. [NV-2] - 11/3/2011
Rep Baca, Joe [CA-43] - 12/7/2011
Rep Barrow, John [GA-12] - 11/14/2011
Rep Bass, Karen [CA-33] - 11/3/2011
Rep Berman, Howard L. [CA-28] - 10/26/2011
Rep Blackburn, Marsha [TN-7] - 10/26/2011
Rep Bono Mack, Mary [CA-45] - 10/26/2011
Rep Carter, John R. [TX-31] - 11/3/2011
Rep Chabot, Steve [OH-1] - 10/26/2011
Rep Chu, Judy [CA-32] - 11/30/2011
Rep Conyers, John, Jr. [MI-14] - 10/26/2011
Rep Cooper, Jim [TN-5] - 12/12/2011
Rep Deutch, Theodore E. [FL-19] - 10/26/2011
Rep Gallegly, Elton [CA-24] - 10/26/2011
Rep Goodlatte, Bob [VA-6] - 10/26/2011
Rep Griffin, Tim [AR-2] - 10/26/2011
Rep King, Peter T. [NY-3] - 11/3/2011
Rep Larson, John B. [CT-1] - 11/30/2011
Rep Lujan, Ben Ray [NM-3] - 11/14/2011
Rep Marino, Tom [PA-10] - 11/3/2011
Rep Nunnelee, Alan [MS-1] - 11/3/2011
Rep Owens, William L. [NY-23] - 11/14/2011
Rep Ross, Dennis [FL-12] - 10/26/2011
Rep Scalise, Steve [LA-1] - 11/14/2011
Rep Schiff, Adam B. [CA-29] - 10/26/2011
Rep Sherman, Brad [CA-27] - 12/7/2011
Rep Wasserman Schultz, Debbie [FL-20] - 11/3/2011
Rep Watt, Melvin L. [NC-12] - 11/3/2011
Rep Terry, Lee [NE-2] - 10/26/2011(withdrawn - 1/18/2012)
Rep Holden, Tim [PA-17] - 11/30/2011(withdrawn - 1/18/2012)
Rep Quayle, Benjamin [AZ-3] - 12/13/2011(withdrawn - 1/17/2012)

PIPA co-sponsors
Sen Alexander, Lamar [TN] - 5/25/2011
Sen Ayotte, Kelly [NH] - 6/27/2011
Sen Bennet, Michael F. [CO] - 7/25/2011
Sen Bingaman, Jeff [NM] - 10/19/2011
Sen Blumenthal, Richard [CT] - 5/12/2011
Sen Blunt, Roy [MO] - 5/23/2011
Sen Boozman, John [AR] - 6/15/2011
Sen Boxer, Barbara [CA] - 12/12/2011
Sen Brown, Sherrod [OH] - 10/20/2011
Sen Cardin, Benjamin L. [MD] - 7/13/2011
Sen Casey, Robert P., Jr. [PA] - 9/7/2011
Sen Chambliss, Saxby [GA] - 11/2/2011
Sen Cochran, Thad [MS] - 6/23/2011
Sen Coons, Christopher A. [DE] - 5/12/2011
Sen Corker, Bob [TN] - 6/9/2011
Sen Durbin, Richard [IL] - 6/30/2011
Sen Enzi, Michael B. [WY] - 9/7/2011
Sen Feinstein, Dianne [CA] - 5/12/2011
Sen Franken, Al [MN] - 5/12/2011
Sen Gillibrand, Kirsten E. [NY] - 5/26/2011
Sen Graham, Lindsey [SC] - 5/12/2011
Sen Grassley, Chuck [IA] - 5/12/2011
Sen Hagan, Kay [NC] - 7/5/2011
Sen Hatch, Orrin G. [UT] - 5/12/2011
Sen Isakson, Johnny [GA] - 11/2/2011
Sen Johnson, Tim [SD] - 10/3/2011
Sen Klobuchar, Amy [MN] - 5/12/2011
Sen Kohl, Herb [WI] - 5/12/2011
Sen Landrieu, Mary L. [LA] - 10/17/2011
Sen Lieberman, Joseph I. [CT] - 7/7/2011
Sen McCain, John [AZ] - 7/26/2011
Sen Menendez, Robert [NJ] - 10/31/2011
Sen Nelson, Bill [FL] - 9/23/2011
Sen Risch, James E. [ID] - 11/7/2011
Sen Rubio, Marco [FL] - 5/26/2011
Sen Schumer, Charles E. [NY] - 5/12/2011
Sen Shaheen, Jeanne [NH] - 6/30/2011
Sen Udall, Tom [NM] - 7/7/2011
Sen Vitter, David [LA] - 11/7/2011
Sen Whitehouse, Sheldon [RI] - 5/12/2011
Sen Moran, Jerry [KS] - 6/23/2011(withdrawn - 6/27/2011)

[Gurtholfin]

Re: SOPA and PIPA: Your thoughts on free speech!

Also, worth pointing out that what Wikipedia and other sites were engaging in today was corporate political speech.

Corporations are people, don't ya know!

[MUnRPI]

Re: SOPA and PIPA: Your thoughts on free speech!

Corporations are people, don't ya know!

*Friedman rolls over in his grave*

[Gurtholfin]

Re: SOPA and PIPA: Your thoughts on free speech!

Honestly, I think the hysteria over this is a little out of control. As long as the bill stays with its original intentions of only going after foreign websites (i.e. nothing ending in .com, .net, .org) and only going after sites dedicated to infringing on copyrights, then I don't see it being much of a problem.

But it won't unless those intentions are written in as limitations. It never stays within the so called "spirit of the law." Never ever. Ever.

Look at the whole Napster deal. They were going after college kids in dorms.

[WeWantMore]

Re: SOPA and PIPA: Your thoughts on free speech!

Corporations are people, don't ya know!

Well, yes, it does raise an interesting question doesn't it? If one thinks corporate speech isn't a real thing, then what in the world went on yesterday? Or if one thinks corporate speech is real, but very very bad, then they better not have been applauding Wikipedia, Google, and others yesterday.

A couple of hypotheticals. First, from Volokh:

Say that Congress concludes that it’s unfair for Google to be able to speak so broadly, in a way that ordinary Americans (including ordinary Congressmen) generally can’t. Congress therefore enacts a statute banning all corporations from spending their money — and therefore banning them from speaking — in support of or opposition to any statute. What would you say about such a statute? Again, I limit the question to those who think corporations generally lack First Amendment rights.

Second, what if Wikipedia decides to hold another blackout day in March, this time with a message urging visitors to vote against Lamar Smith, the Texas Republican who introduced the bill. Are people cool with the government being able to come in and fine Wikipedia for that? If you disagreed with Citizens United, your answer must be yes...

[Patman]

Re: SOPA and PIPA: Your thoughts on free speech!

These bills are basically an effort to turn the current internet into another version of your cable or satellite programming where all that's available is what corporations wish you to have access to. It finally murders the fair use doctrine after it's been getting shot at by the **AA's for the past fifteen years and you have no recourse to defend yourself and in fact there is no requirement for you to even be informed until after your site has been revoked permanently.

We're all going to have to find something new to do instead of ****ing around on message boards if something this extreme ever passes.

The more I was thinking about this the more I realized that this was an attempt to return us to the 1980s/1990s... Prodigy era basically, but with smartphones.

----

Let's note that this won't be the last assault... the UN has been looking for ways to clamp down on internet speech since its against the desires of most of its members. The political class would surely like to corral us if they felt it was worth their while... and this law would surely undermine the political internet as it would enable to executive to enforce these statutes in a one-sided fashion.

[MUnRPI]

Re: SOPA and PIPA: Your thoughts on free speech!

Well, yes, it does raise an interesting question doesn't it? If one thinks corporate speech isn't a real thing, then what in the world went on yesterday? Or if one thinks corporate speech is real, but very very bad, then they better not have been applauding Wikipedia, Google, and others yesterday.

Advertisement, awareness, and giving an avenue for individuals to exercise their freedom of speech. What exactly do you mean by corporate speech?

[MUnRPI]

Re: SOPA and PIPA: Your thoughts on free speech!

An interesting case study

Would it really be in the entertainment industries best interest to go after all these illegal offshore websites? My guess is that the creation of the internet is the best thing that has ever happened to the entertainment business bottom lines. When you sum up all of the lobbying, court costs, and other expenses involved in copyright legislation, is it really worth it? Most importantly, can the entertainment companies really afford to sever relationships with youtube, facebook, twitter, and google?

[bronconick]

Re: SOPA and PIPA: Your thoughts on free speech!

Well, yes, it does raise an interesting question doesn't it? If one thinks corporate speech isn't a real thing, then what in the world went on yesterday? Or if one thinks corporate speech is real, but very very bad, then they better not have been applauding Wikipedia, Google, and others yesterday.

It's a chicken and the egg issue. If corporate speech wasn't allowed in our system, SOPA and PIPA wouldn't exist, at least not remotely in their current form. There would be no need for useful corporate speech like yesterday in that fairyland world.

I'm supposed to feel bad or hypocritical that someone on my side pulled out their nukes yesterday in response to what's been going on for years in Washington? Fark you and the horse you rode in on.

[Gurtholfin]

Re: SOPA and PIPA: Your thoughts on free speech!

It's a chicken and the egg issue. If corporate speech wasn't allowed in our system, SOPA and PIPA wouldn't exist, at least not remotely in their current form. There would be no need for useful corporate speech like yesterday in that fairyland world.

I'm supposed to feel bad or hypocritical that someone on my side pulled out their nukes yesterday in response to what's been going on for years in Washington? Fark you and the horse you rode in on.

To me it comes down to what should corporate free speech encompass?

Taking your site down as a form of protest is one thing.

Being able to make unlimited donations to elected officials to essentially "buy" them is another altogether.


I realize that it could be argued that sites such as Google could hold us all hostage by taking down their site when they wanted something or other to happen, but that would be detrimental to their bottom line and they wouldn't be able to do it for long.

[bronconick]

Re: SOPA and PIPA: Your thoughts on free speech!

Shiat just got real. Megaupload shut down, founder and several employees indicted on piracy charges.

Test case. Megaupload is a site about .4% of the internet recognizes. You win this case, you use the precedent to shut down Youtube.

[WeWantMore]

Re: SOPA and PIPA: Your thoughts on free speech!

It's a chicken and the egg issue. If corporate speech wasn't allowed in our system, SOPA and PIPA wouldn't exist, at least not remotely in their current form. There would be no need for useful corporate speech like yesterday in that fairyland world.

I'm supposed to feel bad or hypocritical that someone on my side pulled out their nukes yesterday in response to what's been going on for years in Washington? Fark you and the horse you rode in on.

Could you expand on the first paragraph? I realize it's a hypothetical, but I highly doubt it. Edit: To expand, 30 years ago, the MPAA was comparing the VCR to a serial killer:

I say to you that the VCR is to the American film producer and the American public as the Boston strangler is to the woman home alone…

- Jack Valenti, head of the MPAA
I'm not sure what this world without corporate speech would look like, but you really think businesses wouldn't want ridiculous degrees of protection in that alternate universe?

As for the second one, no, you shouldn't feel bad. I don't know about hypocritical, but "corporate speech is bad - unless it's for something I like" strikes me as a pretty crazy position.

To me it comes down to what should corporate free speech encompass?

Taking your site down as a form of protest is one thing.

Being able to make unlimited donations to elected officials to essentially "buy" them is another altogether.

That's fine. But then you at least admit that corporations do have some speech rights. That's more a lot of people are willing to do.

[Plante26]

Re: SOPA and PIPA: Your thoughts on free speech!

To me it comes down to what should corporate free speech encompass?

Taking your site down as a form of protest is one thing.

Being able to make unlimited donations to elected officials to essentially "buy" them is another altogether.

Corporations cannot make unlimited donations to elected officials. In fact, corporations cannot make ANY donations to elected officials.

Let's not take liberties with the facts of the Citizens United v. the FEC ruling.

[joecct]

Re: SOPA and PIPA: Your thoughts on free speech!

Corporations cannot make unlimited donations to elected officials. In fact, corporations cannot make ANY donations to elected officials.

Let's not take liberties with the facts of the Citizens United v. the FEC ruling.

Legally, no. But there is always the bribe.