Banks, Credit Unions, and Fees: Oh my!

[Priceless]

Re: Banks, Credit Unions, and Fees: Oh my!

So, based on this article, it appears that the plan is to complain a lot about problems while chanting, "it's someone else's job to fix it."

I predict unprecedented levels of failure to accomplish anything.

Whose job is it to pass laws and regulate industry?

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: Banks, Credit Unions, and Fees: Oh my!

Whose job is it to pass laws and regulate industry?

1. Congress.
2. We need to eliminate all regulations.

[Priceless]

Re: Banks, Credit Unions, and Fees: Oh my!

1. Congress.

Unfortunately, I can't afford to buy my own member of Congress

[Priceless]

Re: Banks, Credit Unions, and Fees: Oh my!

Here is the Declaration of Principles

As we gather together in solidarity to express a feeling of mass injustice, we must not lose sight of what brought us together. We write so that all people who feel wronged by the corporate forces of the world can know that we are your allies.

As one people, united, we acknowledge the reality: that the future of the human race requires the cooperation of its members; that our system must protect our rights, and upon corruption of that system, it is up to the individuals to protect their own rights, and those of their neighbors; that a democratic government derives its just power from the people, but corporations do not seek consent to extract wealth from the people and the Earth; and that no true democracy is attainable when the process is determined by economic power. We come to you at a time when corporations, which place profit over people, self-interest over justice, and oppression over equality, run our governments. We have peaceably assembled here, as is our right, to let these facts be known.

And the five rules they want enacted:

1. Corporations are not persons.
2. Money is not speech
3. Tax Financial Transactions
4. Tax all income as ordinary income
5. Declare a moratorium on foreclosures
Details at link

[LynahFan]

Re: Banks, Credit Unions, and Fees: Oh my!

Here is the Declaration of Principles


And the five rules they want enacted:

1. Corporations are not persons.
2. Money is not speech
3. Tax Financial Transactions
4. Tax all income as ordinary income
5. Declare a moratorium on foreclosures
Details at link

Well, at least those are concrete goals, even if #3 and #4 are the only ones with a snowball's chance of even entering serious debate.

If corporations were denied the rights to due process, jury trials, freedom from unreasonable searches, freedom of speech, etc, which all derive from their "personhood," would the government be footing the bill to re-train us for the resulting subsistence-agrarian society that would be the inevitable result? No investor in his right mind would put his money into a corporation that lacked those rights. If the protesters think things are bad now *with* the corporations, they obviously haven't really thought through what things would be like *without* them. Were we all really that much better off in 1811 than we are in 2011?

[Priceless]

Re: Banks, Credit Unions, and Fees: Oh my!

Well, at least those are concrete goals, even if #3 and #4 are the only ones with a snowball's chance of even entering serious debate.

If corporations were denied the rights to due process, jury trials, freedom from unreasonable searches, freedom of speech, etc, which all derive from their "personhood," would the government be footing the bill to re-train us for the resulting subsistence-agrarian society that would be the inevitable result? No investor in his right mind would put his money into a corporation that lacked those rights. If the protesters think things are bad now *with* the corporations, they obviously haven't really thought through what things would be like *without* them. Were we all really that much better off in 1811 than we are in 2011?

Corporations were never meant to be what they've become, and the question of corporate personhood was never actually addressed by SCOTUS.

Exactly why should those corporations have the rights you list? Those are rights people have, not corporations. Since PEOPLE are employed by corporations, they would still have those rights as individuals.

*****http://media.egotvonline.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/10/Day_7_Occupy_Wall_Street_September_23_2011_Shankbo ne.jpg******

[LynahFan]

Re: Banks, Credit Unions, and Fees: Oh my!

Corporations were never meant to be what they've become, and the question of corporate personhood was never actually addressed by SCOTUS.

No, but many rulings are based on corporate personhood. In that sense, SCOTUS has assumed that corporate personhood is not even something that *needs* to be ruled on - it's an axiom, not a theorem. They've had many opportunities to deny corporations the rights of individuals and have (nearly without exception) declined to do so.

Exactly why should those corporations have the rights you list? Those are rights people have, not corporations. Since PEOPLE are employed by corporations, they would still have those rights as individuals.

If corporations have no rights and cannot be treated as a single legal entity, we would also (ironically) lose a large measure of our ability to curtail their power. If a corporation is not a person, how could anyone sue one in a court of law? How could they sue each other? How could a corporation be fined for violating environmental regulations? Would the government have to individually prosecute and fine each person who participated in the violation instead? What about those who merely knew about it? Or should have known about it? If a corporation is not a person, how can it own property, enter into contracts, or perform any of the hundreds of legal actions that it needs to execute in order to function?

The implications of taking personhood away from corporations extends far past the limited issue which the protesters seem to care about, which appears to be the influence of corporate money on elections and therefore lawmaking. Stipulating that this is, in fact, a problem, I would still think that it could be addressed without throwing out the baby with the bathwater.

[Priceless]

Re: Banks, Credit Unions, and Fees: Oh my!

Damn those anarchists! Stopping foreclosures would be madness! MADNESS!

In 2008, shortly after the Pyrons purchased their home but before the title to the estate was transferred, the responsible company went bankrupt. Never notified of the situation, the family continued for two years to make mortgage payments to their lender Bank of America, according to MyFoxHouston. Those payments, however, never reached Wells Fargo, the mortgage-holder previous to the Pyron's purchase of the home.

"We did everything we were supposed to do," Brian Pyron told MyFoxHouston. "Nobody has communicated with us, notified us. We had been paying our mortgage and everything."

Stories like that of the Pyron's have become familiar since the recession. In August, a senior couple in Florida faced foreclosure not for missing a payment, but for sending a check too early.

In June it was reported that a man in Massachusetts was facing foreclosure over a $0.00 payment that Bank of America said he owed. More recently a Florida resident nearly lost her condo over what had originally been a fee of $4.70.

Millions have undergone foreclosure in recent years. In August, foreclosure sales accounted for six times more home purchases than they would in a healthy housing market, according to experts.

[LynahFan]

Re: Banks, Credit Unions, and Fees: Oh my!

Damn those anarchists! Stopping foreclosures would be madness! MADNESS!

Not madness - just a massive transfer of wealth from the banks' investors to insolvent people who are under water. Your opinion of whether that's a good idea or not may vary...

[Priceless]

Re: Banks, Credit Unions, and Fees: Oh my!

Not madness - just a massive transfer of wealth from the banks' investors to insolvent people who are under water. Your opinion of whether that's a good idea or not may vary...

Consider the demand isn't even canceling foreclosures, but placing a moratorium on them. It's not like the banks are giving this land away or the government is seizing it from them, just maybe it's a good idea not to toss a bunch of families onto the street in he middle of an economic collapse.

[LynahFan]

Re: Banks, Credit Unions, and Fees: Oh my!

Consider the demand isn't even canceling foreclosures, but placing a moratorium on them. It's not like the banks are giving this land away or the government is seizing it from them, just maybe it's a good idea not to toss a bunch of families onto the street in he middle of an economic collapse.

But during the moratorium, the homeowners get to stay in the houses without paying their mortgages, right? That sure sounds like giving them something for free to me. And the banks have a ton of capital invested in those properties that would not be making a return during the moratorium - sounds like it's costing them something. Dunno how you do math, but that sure sounds like taking something from the banks and giving it to the homeowners.

[Priceless]

Re: Banks, Credit Unions, and Fees: Oh my!

But during the moratorium, the homeowners get to stay in the houses without paying their mortgages, right? That sure sounds like giving them something for free to me. And the banks have a ton of capital invested in those properties that would not be making a return during the moratorium - sounds like it's costing them something. Dunno how you do math, but that sure sounds like taking something from the banks and giving it to the homeowners.

They'd be staying in the house, but still owe rent/mortgage. When they are back on their feet financially they can pay back the mortgages.

Or the precious investors can get pennies on the dollar through foreclosure and we can increase the homeless population. That sounds much better.

[LynahFan]

Re: Banks, Credit Unions, and Fees: Oh my!

They'd be staying in the house, but still owe rent/mortgage. When they are back on their feet financially they can pay back the mortgages.

Why do you have such a hard time admitting that this will cost the banks money? Can I borrow some money from you interest-free until I get back on my feet?

Or the precious investors can get pennies on the dollar through foreclosure and we can increase the homeless population. That sounds much better.

If the banks thought that letting the homeowners live in the houses rent-free for a while were a better option, they would already be doing it. When a bank forecloses, it is the lesser of two bad options that it has - it's a last resort to cut their losses.

The fact is that we built too darn much housing in this country, and too much of it was in the high-priced "luxury" market. The price of those houses must come down - simple supply and demand. Propping up a bloated market only extends the time of misery. It's better to rip off that band aid and get started on the road to recovery now.

[Priceless]

Re: Banks, Credit Unions, and Fees: Oh my!

Why do you have such a hard time admitting that this will cost the banks money? Can I borrow some money from you interest-free until I get back on my feet?


If the banks thought that letting the homeowners live in the houses rent-free for a while were a better option, they would already be doing it. When a bank forecloses, it is the lesser of two bad options that it has - it's a last resort to cut their losses.

The fact is that we built too darn much housing in this country, and too much of it was in the high-priced "luxury" market. The price of those houses must come down - simple supply and demand. Propping up a bloated market only extends the time of misery. It's better to rip off that band aid and get started on the road to recovery now.

I guess it's just luck that the people ripping the band-aid off are "job creators" and those suffering the pain are...um...not.

[mookie1995]

*****http://media.egotvonline.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/10/Day_7_Occupy_Wall_Street_September_23_2011_Shankbo ne.jpg******

i'll bet she swallows