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Banks, Credit Unions, and Fees: Oh my!

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  • Guest's Avatar
    Guest replied
    Re: Banks, Credit Unions, and Fees: Oh my!

    Originally posted by LynahFan View Post
    Not madness - just a massive transfer of wealth from the banks' investors to insolvent people who are under water. Your opinion of whether that's a good idea or not may vary...
    Consider the demand isn't even canceling foreclosures, but placing a moratorium on them. It's not like the banks are giving this land away or the government is seizing it from them, just maybe it's a good idea not to toss a bunch of families onto the street in he middle of an economic collapse.

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  • LynahFan
    replied
    Re: Banks, Credit Unions, and Fees: Oh my!

    Originally posted by Priceless View Post
    Damn those anarchists! Stopping foreclosures would be madness! MADNESS!
    Not madness - just a massive transfer of wealth from the banks' investors to insolvent people who are under water. Your opinion of whether that's a good idea or not may vary...

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  • Guest's Avatar
    Guest replied
    Re: Banks, Credit Unions, and Fees: Oh my!

    Damn those anarchists! Stopping foreclosures would be madness! MADNESS!


    In 2008, shortly after the Pyrons purchased their home but before the title to the estate was transferred, the responsible company went bankrupt. Never notified of the situation, the family continued for two years to make mortgage payments to their lender Bank of America, according to MyFoxHouston. Those payments, however, never reached Wells Fargo, the mortgage-holder previous to the Pyron's purchase of the home.

    "We did everything we were supposed to do," Brian Pyron told MyFoxHouston. "Nobody has communicated with us, notified us. We had been paying our mortgage and everything."

    Stories like that of the Pyron's have become familiar since the recession. In August, a senior couple in Florida faced foreclosure not for missing a payment, but for sending a check too early.

    In June it was reported that a man in Massachusetts was facing foreclosure over a $0.00 payment that Bank of America said he owed. More recently a Florida resident nearly lost her condo over what had originally been a fee of $4.70.

    Millions have undergone foreclosure in recent years. In August, foreclosure sales accounted for six times more home purchases than they would in a healthy housing market, according to experts.

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  • LynahFan
    replied
    Re: Banks, Credit Unions, and Fees: Oh my!

    Originally posted by Priceless View Post
    Corporations were never meant to be what they've become, and the question of corporate personhood was never actually addressed by SCOTUS.
    No, but many rulings are based on corporate personhood. In that sense, SCOTUS has assumed that corporate personhood is not even something that *needs* to be ruled on - it's an axiom, not a theorem. They've had many opportunities to deny corporations the rights of individuals and have (nearly without exception) declined to do so.

    Exactly why should those corporations have the rights you list? Those are rights people have, not corporations. Since PEOPLE are employed by corporations, they would still have those rights as individuals.
    If corporations have no rights and cannot be treated as a single legal entity, we would also (ironically) lose a large measure of our ability to curtail their power. If a corporation is not a person, how could anyone sue one in a court of law? How could they sue each other? How could a corporation be fined for violating environmental regulations? Would the government have to individually prosecute and fine each person who participated in the violation instead? What about those who merely knew about it? Or should have known about it? If a corporation is not a person, how can it own property, enter into contracts, or perform any of the hundreds of legal actions that it needs to execute in order to function?

    The implications of taking personhood away from corporations extends far past the limited issue which the protesters seem to care about, which appears to be the influence of corporate money on elections and therefore lawmaking. Stipulating that this is, in fact, a problem, I would still think that it could be addressed without throwing out the baby with the bathwater.

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  • Guest's Avatar
    Guest replied
    Re: Banks, Credit Unions, and Fees: Oh my!

    Originally posted by LynahFan View Post
    Well, at least those are concrete goals, even if #3 and #4 are the only ones with a snowball's chance of even entering serious debate.

    If corporations were denied the rights to due process, jury trials, freedom from unreasonable searches, freedom of speech, etc, which all derive from their "personhood," would the government be footing the bill to re-train us for the resulting subsistence-agrarian society that would be the inevitable result? No investor in his right mind would put his money into a corporation that lacked those rights. If the protesters think things are bad now *with* the corporations, they obviously haven't really thought through what things would be like *without* them. Were we all really that much better off in 1811 than we are in 2011?
    Corporations were never meant to be what they've become, and the question of corporate personhood was never actually addressed by SCOTUS.

    Exactly why should those corporations have the rights you list? Those are rights people have, not corporations. Since PEOPLE are employed by corporations, they would still have those rights as individuals.

    *****http://media.egotvonline.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/10/Day_7_Occupy_Wall_Street_September_23_2011_Shankbo ne.jpg******
    Last edited by Priceless; 10-09-2011, 03:00 PM.

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  • LynahFan
    replied
    Re: Banks, Credit Unions, and Fees: Oh my!

    Originally posted by Priceless View Post
    Here is the Declaration of Principles


    And the five rules they want enacted:

    1. Corporations are not persons.
    2. Money is not speech
    3. Tax Financial Transactions
    4. Tax all income as ordinary income
    5. Declare a moratorium on foreclosures
    Details at link
    Well, at least those are concrete goals, even if #3 and #4 are the only ones with a snowball's chance of even entering serious debate.

    If corporations were denied the rights to due process, jury trials, freedom from unreasonable searches, freedom of speech, etc, which all derive from their "personhood," would the government be footing the bill to re-train us for the resulting subsistence-agrarian society that would be the inevitable result? No investor in his right mind would put his money into a corporation that lacked those rights. If the protesters think things are bad now *with* the corporations, they obviously haven't really thought through what things would be like *without* them. Were we all really that much better off in 1811 than we are in 2011?

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  • Guest's Avatar
    Guest replied
    Re: Banks, Credit Unions, and Fees: Oh my!

    Here is the Declaration of Principles
    As we gather together in solidarity to express a feeling of mass injustice, we must not lose sight of what brought us together. We write so that all people who feel wronged by the corporate forces of the world can know that we are your allies.

    As one people, united, we acknowledge the reality: that the future of the human race requires the cooperation of its members; that our system must protect our rights, and upon corruption of that system, it is up to the individuals to protect their own rights, and those of their neighbors; that a democratic government derives its just power from the people, but corporations do not seek consent to extract wealth from the people and the Earth; and that no true democracy is attainable when the process is determined by economic power. We come to you at a time when corporations, which place profit over people, self-interest over justice, and oppression over equality, run our governments. We have peaceably assembled here, as is our right, to let these facts be known.
    And the five rules they want enacted:

    1. Corporations are not persons.
    2. Money is not speech
    3. Tax Financial Transactions
    4. Tax all income as ordinary income
    5. Declare a moratorium on foreclosures
    Details at link

    Leave a comment:


  • Guest's Avatar
    Guest replied
    Re: Banks, Credit Unions, and Fees: Oh my!

    Originally posted by ScoobyDoo View Post
    1. Congress.
    Unfortunately, I can't afford to buy my own member of Congress

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  • ScoobyDoo
    replied
    Re: Banks, Credit Unions, and Fees: Oh my!

    Originally posted by Priceless View Post
    Whose job is it to pass laws and regulate industry?
    1. Congress.
    2. We need to eliminate all regulations.

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  • Guest's Avatar
    Guest replied
    Re: Banks, Credit Unions, and Fees: Oh my!

    Originally posted by LynahFan View Post
    So, based on this article, it appears that the plan is to complain a lot about problems while chanting, "it's someone else's job to fix it."

    I predict unprecedented levels of failure to accomplish anything.
    Whose job is it to pass laws and regulate industry?

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  • LynahFan
    replied
    Re: Banks, Credit Unions, and Fees: Oh my!

    Originally posted by Priceless View Post
    So, based on this article, it appears that the plan is to complain a lot about problems while chanting, "it's someone else's job to fix it."

    I predict unprecedented levels of failure to accomplish anything.

    Leave a comment:


  • Guest's Avatar
    Guest replied
    Re: Banks, Credit Unions, and Fees: Oh my!

    As the Occupy Wall Street protests spread from Lower Manhattan to Washington and other cities, the chattering classes keep complaining that the marchers lack a clear message and specific policy prescriptions. The message — and the solutions — should be obvious to anyone who has been paying attention since the economy went into a recession that continues to sock the middle class while the rich have recovered and prospered. The problem is that no one in Washington has been listening.

    At this point, protest is the message: income inequality is grinding down that middle class, increasing the ranks of the poor, and threatening to create a permanent underclass of able, willing but jobless people. On one level, the protesters, most of them young, are giving voice to a generation of lost opportunity.

    The jobless rate for college graduates under age 25 has averaged 9.6 percent over the past year; for young high school graduates, the average is 21.6 percent. Those figures do not reflect graduates who are working but in low-paying jobs that do not even require diplomas. Such poor prospects in the early years of a career portend a lifetime of diminished prospects and lower earnings — the very definition of downward mobility.

    The protests, though, are more than a youth uprising. The protesters’ own problems are only one illustration of the ways in which the economy is not working for most Americans. They are exactly right when they say that the financial sector, with regulators and elected officials in collusion, inflated and profited from a credit bubble that burst, costing millions of Americans their jobs, incomes, savings and home equity. As the bad times have endured, Americans have also lost their belief in redress and recovery.

    The initial outrage has been compounded by bailouts and by elected officials’ hunger for campaign cash from Wall Street, a toxic combination that has reaffirmed the economic and political power of banks and bankers, while ordinary Americans suffer.

    Extreme inequality is the hallmark of a dysfunctional economy, dominated by a financial sector that is driven as much by speculation, gouging and government backing as by productive investment.

    When the protesters say they represent 99 percent of Americans, they are referring to the concentration of income in today’s deeply unequal society. Before the recession, the share of income held by those in the top 1 percent of households was 23.5 percent, the highest since 1928 and more than double the 10 percent level of the late 1970s.
    More at link

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  • Guest's Avatar
    Guest replied
    Re: Banks, Credit Unions, and Fees: Oh my!

    Originally posted by ScottM View Post
    IMHO the unions would send a stronger message if they pulled their pension fund assets from the big banks, and allowed their members to self-manage them. Or give them away to "the masses".
    What?

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  • ScottM
    replied
    Re: Banks, Credit Unions, and Fees: Oh my!

    Originally posted by St. Clown View Post
    So other than the fact that people are mad at Wall Street, and others just like to protest because it's what they seem to do professionally, there doesn't seem to be an agenda.
    From the signs and chants, it seems to run the gamut from ending the wars in the mideast, to statehood for the Palestinians, to worker rights to loan forgiveness to corporate "greed". More of a semi-organized biatch-fest, like "The View". IMHO the unions would send a stronger message if they pulled their pension fund assets from the big banks, and allowed their members to self-manage them. Or give them away to "the masses".

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  • St. Clown
    replied
    Re: Banks, Credit Unions, and Fees: Oh my!

    I went to the OccupyWallStreet.org site a few days ago, and I couldn't find a plan. So I started checking around and found a forum. Looking through the forum, I found a few people asking the question. It looks like some of the people on there answered those questions only to later remove/edit their reply (or the site owner/moderator did so) when others replied saying to not give an agenda, to not lockdown the movement with specific demands.

    So other than the fact that people are mad at Wall Street, and others just like to protest because it's what they seem to do professionally, there doesn't seem to be an agenda.

    Leave a comment:

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