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  • Re: Nice Planet 2011

    Who kills this beautiful little boy? Why his father, of course.

    http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/l...,5679845.story
    2011 Poser of the Year & Pulitzer Prize winning machine gunner.

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    • Re: Nice Planet 2011

      Originally posted by dxmnkd316 View Post
      The fact that it's so nebulous and difficult to define is why I probably have conflicting views. I honestly don't expect to ever find a resolution to my satisfaction with regards to hate crime laws
      I think "hate crimes" get attention for reasons that pedophiles do - is there something in the offender that predisposes them to this type of crime more than an offender of a simple robbery or "spur of the moment" offense? We throw the book at pedophiles because it's likely the psychological makeup of the criminal suggests they'll do it again and therefore they see more time than another offender that targets adults? Isn't it logical to suggest that someone "predisposed" to targeting _______ group has a similarly dangerous pysche?

      Before anyone jumps my train my mind is not made up, but I think the concept itself is worthy of intelligent discourse.

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      • Re: Nice Planet 2011

        Originally posted by Slap Shot View Post
        I think "hate crimes" get attention for reasons that pedophiles do - is there something in the offender that predisposes them to this type of crime more than an offender of a simple robbery or "spur of the moment" offense? We throw the book at pedophiles because it's likely the psychological makeup of the criminal suggests they'll do it again and therefore they see more time than another offender that targets adults? Isn't it logical to suggest that someone "predisposed" to targeting _______ group has a similarly dangerous pysche?

        Before anyone jumps my train my mind is not made up, but I think the concept itself is worthy of intelligent discourse.
        I doubt there has ever been, in the history of the world, a pedophile who only offended only once by choice. Whereas I would speculate that the majority of people who commit "hate crimess" do so only once. Thus, to me, the comparison is a non sequitor. Proponants of the concept of "hate crimes" assert that kicking my mother's teeth in because she's got money in her purse is bad. But kicking in the teeth of a "protected" old lady is worse, motivated as they assume it is, by "hate." Let's be honest here, these laws generally represent giant panders by Democrats to their most loyal constituency. I think the laws we have are quite sufficient: without any "hate crime" enhancement, two of the three guys who dragged Mr. Byrd to death are on death row, the third is in the TDCJ for life. Lawrence Brewer is scheduled to be juiced the 21st of this month. As an aside, I'm betting Bianca Jagger won't show up to protest.
        Last edited by Old Pio; 09-04-2011, 10:02 PM.
        2011 Poser of the Year & Pulitzer Prize winning machine gunner.

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        • Re: Nice Planet 2011

          Originally posted by Slap Shot View Post
          I think "hate crimes" get attention for reasons that pedophiles do - is there something in the offender that predisposes them to this type of crime more than an offender of a simple robbery or "spur of the moment" offense? We throw the book at pedophiles because it's likely the psychological makeup of the criminal suggests they'll do it again and therefore they see more time than another offender that targets adults? Isn't it logical to suggest that someone "predisposed" to targeting _______ group has a similarly dangerous pysche?

          Before anyone jumps my train my mind is not made up, but I think the concept itself is worthy of intelligent discourse.

          I think we throw the book at pedophiles because their crimes are particularly despicable. They target those who cannot defend themselves.

          Although I understand the point you're getting at, I don't necessarily agree with the comparison between racists and pedophiles.
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          • Re: Nice Planet 2011

            Originally posted by dxmnkd316 View Post
            I think we throw the book at pedophiles because their crimes are particularly despicable. They target those who cannot defend themselves.
            I agree, but what was done to Matthew Shephard is about as heinous (not only in execution but reason) as it gets, was it not?

            Originally posted by Old Pio View Post
            I doubt there has ever been, in the history of the world, a pedophile who only offended only once by choice. Whereas I would speculate that the majority of people who commit "hate crimess" do so only once.
            Not only do we not know if this is true or not, explain exactly why it's so illogical to surmise that someone capable of "_______" on the basis of race or sexual orientation is less likely to repeat their behavior any less so than a pedophile? My Parise I'm not suggesting a pedophile shouldn't be locked away in the manner they currently are, but I am questioning why a hate crime offender is so much more likely to stop their behavior after one incident. Jebus, think about it.
            Last edited by Slap Shot; 09-04-2011, 11:10 PM.

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            • Re: Nice Planet 2011

              Originally posted by Slap Shot View Post
              I agree, but what was done to Matthew Shephard is about as heinous (not only in execution but reason) as it gets, was it not?



              Not only do we not know if this is true or not, explain exactly why it's so illogical to surmise that someone capable of "_______" on the basis of race or sexual orientation is less likely to repeat their behavior any less so than a pedophile? My Parise I'm not suggesting a pedophile shouldn't be locked away in the manner they currently are, but I am questioning why a hate crime offender is so much more likely to stop their behavior after one incident. Jebus, think about it.
              Actually, it's you who should think about it. Short of chemical castration, have you ever heard of any "therapy" that "cured" a pedophile? It sure didn't work for hundreds (thousands?) of priests, did it? My admittedly lay understanding is pedophiles are extremely resistant to treatment and are almost never free from their urges. And they start very early and continue for decades. Take the case of Kenneth Parnell, who kidnapped and sexually abused Stevie Stayner for years in the 70's. Decades later, at age 71 and confined to a wheelchair, Parnell was convicted of trying to "buy" a four year old boy. A lifetime achievement award winner if ever there was one. However, I believe not all people who commit "hate crimes" do so as an avocation. My guess is that many of the crimes are situational, a product of drinking, unemployment, ignorance, confrontation and other factors. And "hate crimes" covers a wide range of law breaking doesn't it? From knocking over headstones and soaping windows with swastikas to dragging some poor devil behind a pickup. Whereas what pedophiles do is defined by a much narrower range of motivation and behavior. Certainly there must be serial "hate crime" perpetrators out there, but my guess is, for a whole bunch of them, the "hate crime" they commit is their first and probably only one. The damage pedophiles do to our society is also much greater, IMO.
              Last edited by Old Pio; 09-04-2011, 11:48 PM.
              2011 Poser of the Year & Pulitzer Prize winning machine gunner.

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              • Re: Nice Planet 2011

                Originally posted by Old Pio View Post
                Certainly there must be serial "hate crime" perpetrators out there, but my guess is, for a whole bunch of them, the "hate crime" they commit is their first and probably only one. The damage pedophiles do to our society is also much greater, IMO.
                I'm not arguing for a reduction of the penalties waged against pedophiles, I just don't think it's illogical to believe that someone capable of a "pshychological" crime born of hatred toward a race or sexual orientation isn't capable of repeating said behavior. I'm not equating the two crimes but rather questioning whether or not what led to the action is any less likely to be repeated. In the end I think the question is why should we shy away from adding time to this type of crime? Would we really be missing the boat?
                Last edited by Slap Shot; 09-04-2011, 11:53 PM.

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                • Re: Nice Planet 2011

                  Originally posted by Slap Shot View Post
                  I'm not arguing for a reduction of the penalties waged against pedophiles, I just don't think it's illogical to believe that someone capable of a "pshychological" crime born of hatred toward a race or sexual orientation isn't capable of repeating said behavior.
                  I understood you the first time. And as I've explained now, twice, short of killing him, I don't know how you can guarantee that a pedophile won't re-offend. But I think a high school kid who gets loaded, and knocks over some headstones can be taught the error of his ways. The buried premise of your argument seems to be that all "hate crimes" are lynchings and all the same. They aren't. And I haven't touched on the issue of sentencing, except to note the draconian penalties assessed the guys who killed Mr. Byrd. And I certainly haven't suggested that people who commit "hate crimes" "aren't capable" of reoffending. Why don't you try responding to the arguments I actually make? I say again, for the most part, "hate crimes" laws are panders by Democrats to a reliable constituency and do far more harm than good to our society.
                  Last edited by Old Pio; 09-05-2011, 12:06 AM.
                  2011 Poser of the Year & Pulitzer Prize winning machine gunner.

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                  • Re: Nice Planet 2011

                    Originally posted by Old Pio View Post
                    The buried premise of your argument seems to be that all "hate crimes" are lynchings and all the same.
                    Jebus, nothing I've posted would suggest anything of the sort. I've never once suggested all "hate crimes" are one in the same. If anything I'd question why you're so averse to the possibility that said behavior could be repeated. That's easily as logical as the thought process you've ascribed to me. Jebus pio, it's this type of exchange where you lose me. Is it really that ludicrous to wonder if the perpetrators of the Shepard case wouldn't continue with their ways were they not caught? Why exactly are you so disinclined to discuss that possibility? I've not demanded any bizarre punishments I simply don't think it's beyond the realm of possiblities that someone capable of such a crime wouldn't do it again.

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                    • Re: Nice Planet 2011

                      Originally posted by Old Pio View Post
                      I understood you the first time.
                      You didn't, you couldn't have because you have no clue what a hate crime even is. (By the way, could you actually point to this tombstone tipper hate crime?) You don't even realize what Slap Shot was trying to say, hence why you're still blithering on about it as if you have some point to make.

                      For example, this is a hate crime.
                      2 Men Plead Guilty In Swastika Branding Case

                      Before you even say something stupid. (Which would require you not to post) THEY PLEADED GUILTY TO IT!

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                      • Re: Nice Planet 2011

                        Originally posted by Slap Shot View Post
                        Jebus, nothing I've posted would suggest anything of the sort. I've never once suggested all "hate crimes" are one in the same. If anything I'd question why you're so averse to the possibility that said behavior could be repeated. That's easily as logical as the thought process you've ascribed to me. Jebus pio, it's this type of exchange where you lose me. Is it really that ludicrous to wonder if the perpetrators of the Shepard case wouldn't continue with their ways were they not caught? Why exactly are you so disinclined to discuss that possibility? I've not demanded any bizarre punishments I simply don't think it's beyond the realm of possiblities that someone capable of such a crime wouldn't do it again.
                        As I understand it, the motivation of the thugs in the Shepherd case is open to disucssion. And I don't recall, but did those losers have a history of "hate crimes?" Why is it so hard for you to picture somebody doing something stupd, and probably out of character, once in his life? Why do you cling so desperately to the notion that anyone who commits any kind of "hate crime" is a Grand Kleagal and absolutely committed to a lifetime of "hate crimes?" Why is that notion so important to you? I guess because you so fervently believe that these legal panders are necessary. And you continue to refute arguments I haven't made. I've held out the possibility that there may be serial committers of "hate crimes," it is you who have absolutely denied the possibility that anyone could only commit one such crime and then grow up and move on. And that's why I say it's a non sequitor to compare people who commit "hate crimes" with pedophiles. Pedophilia is not an impulse or a mind set. Nobody "changes their mind" about being a pedophile. But racists can reform, check out the biography of Mr. Justice Hugo Black.
                        Last edited by Old Pio; 09-05-2011, 12:25 AM.
                        2011 Poser of the Year & Pulitzer Prize winning machine gunner.

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                        • Re: Nice Planet 2011

                          No one has a history of crime the first time they commit one. Jebus, really?

                          fwiw I fully accept that someone capable of a "hate crime" may not automatically be capable of repeating said behavior but do we want to take that chance? And do you recognize that they may be?
                          Last edited by Slap Shot; 09-05-2011, 12:26 AM.

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                          • Re: Nice Planet 2011

                            Originally posted by Slap Shot View Post
                            No one has a history of crime the first time they commit one. Jebus, really?

                            fwiw I fully accept that someone capable of a "hate crime" may not automatically be capable of repeating said behavior but do we want to take that chance? And do you recognize that they may be?
                            Okay, we're done here. You can keep arguing like a high school sophomore by yourself. I think most people with room temperature IQ's understand that in the context of our discussion a "history" can include juvenile crimes as well as crimes not discovered or charged and actions that, while not criminal, might be predictive of future behavior. You made a bad comparison between pedophiles and people who commit hate crimes. It was bad then. And it's still bad.
                            Last edited by Old Pio; 09-05-2011, 12:50 AM.
                            2011 Poser of the Year & Pulitzer Prize winning machine gunner.

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                            • Re: Nice Planet 2011

                              Originally posted by Old Pio View Post
                              Okay, we're done here. You can keep arguing like a high school sophomore by yourself.
                              We're done because you're incapable of honest discourse. I never equated anything with anything but rather made it perfectly clear I question if someone capable of a hate crime is or is not similary capable of commting the offense again. You're so inflicted with a, "black and white" mentality that you don't realize we're far closer to our thinking than not. Sadly, that your refuse to address the concept makes you the child and no one else. Good luck with continuing to tuck tail and hide when asked to address a comprehensive concept.
                              Last edited by Slap Shot; 09-05-2011, 10:17 AM.

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                              • Re: Nice Planet 2011

                                Originally posted by Foxton View Post
                                You didn't, you couldn't have because you have no clue what a hate crime even is. (By the way, could you actually point to this tombstone tipper hate crime?) You don't even realize what Slap Shot was trying to say, hence why you're still blithering on about it as if you have some point to make.

                                For example, this is a hate crime.
                                2 Men Plead Guilty In Swastika Branding Case

                                Before you even say something stupid. (Which would require you not to post) THEY PLEADED GUILTY TO IT!
                                We're especially semi-literate tonight, aren't we, liar?
                                2011 Poser of the Year & Pulitzer Prize winning machine gunner.

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