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  • #16
    Re: Who is John Galt?

    I guess I need to read more of Rand. I had no idea that rape was a vice particular to capitalists, as it appears the stupid commies don't commit rape.
    No man is entitled to the benefits of freedom if he is not vigilant in its preservation. - Douglas MacArthur

    The world is a dangerous place to live; not because of the people who are evil, but because of the people who don't do anything about it. - Albert Einstein

    I predict future happiness for Americans if they can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them.- Thomas Jefferson

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    • #17
      Re: Who is John Galt?

      Originally posted by Wol4ine View Post
      I guess I need to read more of Rand. I had no idea that rape was a vice particular to capitalists, as it appears the stupid commies don't commit rape.
      Rand's female protagonists famously like it rough. Maybe you do need to read more Rand if you don't realize that.

      Two pivotal scenes in Ayn Rand's most famous works of fiction revolve around the "**** rape" of the lead female characters. In The Fountainhead, it's Howard Roarke's rape of Dominique, with whom the sexual chemistry is so sizzling, he needs to break into her home and take her by force. From Amanda Hess's transcription:

      She tried to tear herself away from him. The effort broke against his arms that had not felt it. Her fists beat against his shoulders, against his face. He moved one hand, took her two wrists and pinned them behind her, under his arm, wrenching her shoulder blades.…She fell back against the dressing table, she stood crouching, her hands clasping the edge behind her, her eyes wide, colorless, shapeless in terror. He was laughing. There was the movement of laughter on his face, but no sound.…Then he approached. He lifted her without effort. She let her teeth sink into his hand and felt blood on the tip of her tongue. He pulled her head back and he forced her mouth open against his.

      Of this scene, Rand has said "if it was rape, it was rape by engraved invitation," presumably because Dominique had flirted with Roarke beforehand. A lot. Rand also wrote in her letters,

      But the fact is that Roark did not actually rape Dominique; she had asked for it, and he knew that she wanted it. A man who would force himself on a woman against her wishes would be committing a dreadful crime. What Dominique liked about Roark was the fact that he took the responsibility for their romance and for his own actions. Most men nowadays, like Peter Keating, expect to seduce a woman, or rather they let her seduce them and thus shift the responsibility to her. That is what a truly feminine woman would despise. The lesson in the Roark-Dominique romance is one of spiritual strength and self-confidence, not of physical violence.

      In Rand's view, not raping a woman is apparently what hurts her, by shifting responsibility for seduction to her. This. Is. Terrible. And I say that as someone who, again, has enjoyed Ayn Rand's books and really really wishes her views on gender and sexuality were any measure less messed up than they are.

      In Atlas Shrugged, Dagny and John Galt finally consummate their unspoken affection (which exists because she is the smartest, most capable woman around and he is the smartest, most capable man--except for Francisco D'Anconia, who always seemed pretty awesome to me, but somehow didn't deserve her) when he tracks her down in a train tunnel, sneaking up on her from behind. As a teenager, I didn't know how to read this scene. Now I see it as rape, pure and simple.
      Rand is the ultimate male teenage read -- all the adolescent tropes are there, from the misunderstood genius to the lone protester against society's preference of the comfortably normal over the uncomfortable (but morally superior) abnormal. Like Slayer, I don't trust the 15 year old who doesn't dig it.

      And if by 19 we've all realized it has the maturity and intellectual depth of Twilight, well, that's OK too.
      Last edited by Kepler; 04-01-2011, 04:00 PM.
      Cornell University
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      • #18
        Re: Who is John Galt?

        "You said 'rape' twice".

        Anyone?
        "We in America do not have government by the majority. We have government by the majority who participate." -Thomas Jefferson

        "I confess I enjoy democracy immensely. It is incomparably idiotic, and hence incomparably amusing." -H. L. Mencken

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        • #19
          Re: Who is John Galt?

          Originally posted by ScottM View Post
          "You said 'rape' twice".

          Anyone?
          Blazing Saddles.
          Cornell University
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          ECAC Champion 1967, 1968, 1969, 1970, 1973, 1980, 1986, 1996, 1997, 2003, 2005, 2010
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          • #20
            Re: Who is John Galt?

            OK. That's all well and good. But why don't the stupid commies partake?
            No man is entitled to the benefits of freedom if he is not vigilant in its preservation. - Douglas MacArthur

            The world is a dangerous place to live; not because of the people who are evil, but because of the people who don't do anything about it. - Albert Einstein

            I predict future happiness for Americans if they can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them.- Thomas Jefferson

            Comment


            • #21
              Re: Who is John Galt?

              Originally posted by Wol4ine View Post
              OK. That's all well and good. But why don't the stupid commies partake?
              They're too busy waiting in bread lines.

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              • #22
                Re: Who is John Galt?

                Originally posted by Wol4ine View Post
                OK. That's all well and good. But why don't the stupid commies partake?
                Well to be technical nothing on the chart says they don't. It's just a flowchart for a Randian hero. Randian villains have a whole other workflow.
                Cornell University
                National Champion 1967, 1970
                ECAC Champion 1967, 1968, 1969, 1970, 1973, 1980, 1986, 1996, 1997, 2003, 2005, 2010
                Ivy League Champion 1966, 1967, 1968, 1969, 1970, 1971, 1972, 1973, 1977, 1978, 1983, 1984, 1985, 1996, 1997, 2002, 2003, 2004, 2005, 2012, 2014, 2018, 2019, 2020

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                • #23
                  Re: Who is John Galt?

                  well, anyway. I saw that they are increasing the number of theaters they plan on releasing this movie to. Originally it was planned on showing in 10 or 11 cities. It's up to over 40 now. Unfortunately, none in MIchigan. If you would like to see the movie you can go to this http://www.atlasshruggedpart1.com/ and in the 'Theater' tab DEMAND IT.
                  No man is entitled to the benefits of freedom if he is not vigilant in its preservation. - Douglas MacArthur

                  The world is a dangerous place to live; not because of the people who are evil, but because of the people who don't do anything about it. - Albert Einstein

                  I predict future happiness for Americans if they can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them.- Thomas Jefferson

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Re: Who is John Galt?

                    I assume it will wind up in the same number of theaters as Fahrenheit 9-11. It's the TP equivalent in terms of itch-scratching. That isn't really a criticism -- god bless them if they get a positive ROI.

                    If they went for art deco sets I'd see it. That's the greatest period in design since Brunelleschi.

                    *****http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41zva-5kRtL._SS400_.jpg******
                    Last edited by Kepler; 04-04-2011, 09:40 PM.
                    Cornell University
                    National Champion 1967, 1970
                    ECAC Champion 1967, 1968, 1969, 1970, 1973, 1980, 1986, 1996, 1997, 2003, 2005, 2010
                    Ivy League Champion 1966, 1967, 1968, 1969, 1970, 1971, 1972, 1973, 1977, 1978, 1983, 1984, 1985, 1996, 1997, 2002, 2003, 2004, 2005, 2012, 2014, 2018, 2019, 2020

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                    • #25
                      Re: Who is John Galt?

                      Given Hollywoods propensity to lean left, I'd be surprised if it got in as many theaters as 9-11. All the more reason I want to see it.
                      No man is entitled to the benefits of freedom if he is not vigilant in its preservation. - Douglas MacArthur

                      The world is a dangerous place to live; not because of the people who are evil, but because of the people who don't do anything about it. - Albert Einstein

                      I predict future happiness for Americans if they can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them.- Thomas Jefferson

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Re: Who is John Galt?

                        Originally posted by Kepler View Post
                        If they went for art deco sets I'd see it. That's the greatest period in design since Brunelleschi.
                        Agreed, though it doesn't look like they did. Which is most disappointing.

                        I wish I am able to live long enough to do all the things I was attributed to.

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                        • #27
                          Re: Who is John Galt?

                          looks interesting. I've never read the book. I suppose I have about 1 month to do that prior to checking this out (if I check it out).

                          I did enjoy the Fountainhead quite a bit. Really mainly the idea of the individual against the mass which resonates still (though many people tend to say that's childish, etc., and this gets lumped in w/reading salinger past the age of 20), and particularly resonates when you look at what the media covers and what they don't cover and the types of pressures to "conform" to the established view...whatever that is.

                          though in terms of writing, Rand was FAR too in love with Roark for my taste. she should have distanced herself a bit from that.
                          Everything in its right place, Wisconsin Hockey National Champs!


                          "but you're not as confused as him are you. it's not your job to be as confused as Nigel". Tap pt 1.

                          "I think it's ****ing stock. What--? Which part of that is unclear to you? I think it sounds stock to my ears. I mean, do you want me to write it down?" Tap Pt. 2

                          Who???! So What!!!! Big Deal!!!!

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                          • #28
                            Re: Who is John Galt?

                            Originally posted by solovsfett View Post
                            and this gets lumped in w/reading salinger past the age of 20
                            Funny you should mention that. I still really enjoy Catcher In The Rye, but not because I relate to it in the way the younger crowd might. Caulfield isn't a good character because of the "he's got it figured out" nonsense some people attach to, but rather because here and there you can say he makes some sense and the rest of the time you want to choke him. The fact he makes sense periodically makes the choking moments all the greater of a swing to the other side of the emotional spectrum. Since he's a fictitious character that can yank people around like that...I've always thought it was really well done, though granted not for the reasons many others do.
                            Last edited by XYZ; 04-05-2011, 01:02 AM.
                            I wish I am able to live long enough to do all the things I was attributed to.

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                            • #29
                              Re: Who is John Galt?

                              Originally posted by XYZ View Post
                              Funny you should mention that. I still really enjoy Catcher In The Rye, but not because I relate to it in the way the younger crowd might. Caulfield isn't a good character because of the "he's got it figured out" nonsense some people attach to, but rather because here and there you can say he makes some sense and the rest of the time you want to choke him. The fact he makes sense periodically makes the choking moments all the greater of a swing to the other side of the emotional spectrum. Since he's a fictitious character that can yank people around like that...I've always thought it was really well done, though granted not for the reasons many others do.
                              it's an excellent book. sort of an auto-biography almost of salinger the man (there was a LOT of Caulfield in J. D.). it took him 10 years to write it. the rest of his stuff is excellent as well and if you read 9 stories and franny and zooey close enough you begin to see trace elements of his WWII experience.

                              I believe Salinger was in the 2nd wave to land on Utah beach
                              Everything in its right place, Wisconsin Hockey National Champs!


                              "but you're not as confused as him are you. it's not your job to be as confused as Nigel". Tap pt 1.

                              "I think it's ****ing stock. What--? Which part of that is unclear to you? I think it sounds stock to my ears. I mean, do you want me to write it down?" Tap Pt. 2

                              Who???! So What!!!! Big Deal!!!!

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Re: Who is John Galt?

                                Originally posted by Wol4ine View Post
                                well, anyway. I saw that they are increasing the number of theaters they plan on releasing this movie to. Originally it was planned on showing in 10 or 11 cities. It's up to over 40 now. Unfortunately, none in MIchigan. If you would like to see the movie you can go to this http://www.atlasshruggedpart1.com/ and in the 'Theater' tab DEMAND IT.
                                Not in any Maine theatres yet and I won't hold my breath...
                                You know you go to UMaine if...

                                ...you think Bananas is a good name for a giant bear.
                                ...you would riot after hockey games but its too darn cold.
                                ...you think hockey is the only sport that matters.
                                ...you hate UNH.

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