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Global War on Terror III: Dick Cheney's Hague ICC Vacation

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  • #76
    Re: Global War on Terror III: Dick Cheney's Hague ICC Vacation

    Originally posted by joecct View Post
    I come back to Democracy is one form of government that may work. It works for us, but not everywhere.
    Except that we're not a democracy; we're a republic.

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    • #77
      Re: Global War on Terror III: Dick Cheney's Hague ICC Vacation

      Its a divergent policy:

      Chill out and be friends with countries - most govts are concerned with public and international opinion like never before...so they will largely be forced to be friendly once we do. Let the UN carry more heavy lifting...

      Pursue AQ to the ends of the earth - no change...you just don't have to act out (ie GW) in order to be vigilant

      Then start diverting military spending to more important causes like reducing deficit spending or more efficiently putting Americans to work. We are still financing the protection of central Germany at a time when its in the heart of the EU and the only threat Russia poses is the reduction of oil supplies. Definitely not worth the US diving on its budgetary sword for...
      Last edited by 5mn_Major; 07-28-2009, 10:12 PM.
      Go Gophers!

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      • #78
        Re: Global War on Terror III: Dick Cheney's Hague ICC Vacation

        Originally posted by 5mn_Major View Post
        We are still financing the protection of central Germany at a time when its in the heart of the EU and the only threat Russia poses is the reduction of oil supplies. Definitely not worth the US diving on its budgetary sword for...
        We're buying influence and stability for our multinationals so they can raid the treasury for bailouts and outsource. That's what happens when bribes are "protected speech."
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        • #79
          Say it ain't so

          Ex-DHS chief links politics to terror alerts

          WASHINGTON – Former Homeland Security Secretary Tom Ridge claims in a new book that he was pressured by other members of President George W. Bush's Cabinet to raise the nation's terror alert level just before the 2004 presidential election.

          Ridge says he objected to raising the security level despite the urgings of former Defense Secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld and then-Attorney General John Ashcroft, according to a publicity release from Ridge's publisher. He said the episode convinced him to follow through with his plans to leave the administration; he resigned on Nov. 30, 2004.

          Bush's former homeland security adviser, Frances Townsend, said Thursday that politics never played a role in determining alert levels.

          Two tapes were released by al-Qaida in the weeks leading up to the election — one by terrorist leader Osama bin Laden and the other by a man calling himself "Azzam the American." Terrorism experts suspected that "Azzam the American" was Adam Gadahn, a 26-year-old Californian whom the FBI had been urgently seeking.

          Townsend said the videotapes contained "very graphic" and "threatening" messages.

          Townsend said that anytime there was a discussion of changing the alert level, she first spoke with Ridge and then, if necessary, called a meeting of the homeland security council comprising the secretaries of defense and homeland security, the attorney general and CIA and FBI directors. The group then made a recommendation to the president about whether the color-coded threat level should be raised.

          "Never were politics ever discussed in this context in my presence," she said.

          Asked if there was any reason for Ridge to have felt pressured, Townsend said: "He was certainly not pressured. And, by the way, he didn't object when it was raised and he certainly didn't object when it wasn't raised."

          Ridge's publicist, Joe Rinaldi, said Ridge was out of town and was not doing interviews until his book, "The Test of Our Times: America Under Siege ... and How We Can Be Safe Again," is released on Sept. 1.

          In 2004, Ridge explained why he didn't feel the alert should be raised. "We don't have to go to (code level) orange to take action in response either to these tapes or just general action to improve security around the country," he said then.

          In 2005, months after he resigned, Ridge said his agency has been the most reluctant to raise the alert level. "There were times when some people were really aggressive about raising it, and we said, 'For that?'" he said during a panel discussion in May 2005. But his book appears to be the first time he publicly attributes some of the pressure to politics.

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          • #80
            Re: Global War on Terror III: Dick Cheney's Hague ICC Vacation

            Obviously Tom Ridge is a commie-pink lefitst islamofascist American hating terrorist sympathizer!
            "It's as if the Drumpf Administration is made up of the worst and unfunny parts of the Cleveland Browns, Washington Generals, and the alien Mon-Stars from Space Jam."
            -aparch

            "Scenes in "Empire Strikes Back" that take place on the tundra planet Hoth were shot on the present-day site of Ralph Engelstad Arena."
            -INCH

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            • #81
              Re: Global War on Terror III: Dick Cheney's Hague ICC Vacation

              As Duncan Black wrote over at the Eschaton blog


              And just so it's clear: using the threat of terrorism to try to achieve political goals is, you know, what terrorists do.
              What kind of cheese are you planning to put on top?

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              • #82
                Re: Global War on Terror III: Dick Cheney's Hague ICC Vacation

                Just a question -- should the USA recall our ambassador from London for "consultations"? And just to show the Brits how upset we are, declare their ambassador personna non grata??
                CCT '77 & '78
                4 kids
                5 grandsons (BCA 7/09, CJA 5/14, JDL 8/14, JFL 6/16, PJL 7/18)
                1 granddaughter (EML 4/18)

                ”Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both.”
                - Benjamin Franklin

                Banned from the St. Lawrence University Facebook page - March 2016 (But I got better).

                I want to live forever. So far, so good.

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                • #83
                  Re: Global War on Terror III: Dick Cheney's Hague ICC Vacation

                  Originally posted by joecct View Post
                  Just a question -- should the USA recall our ambassador from London for "consultations"? And just to show the Brits how upset we are, declare their ambassador personna non grata??
                  We could but that would misunderstands the UK's role in this. Ever since Tony Blair's Labor government decided to precede with devolution to curb any Scottish, Welsh, or Northern Irish independence movements in the 90s, certain government functions have been returned to the 3 "Celtic" kingdoms. This decision was made by a Scottish government minister, currently a Scottish National Party member, directly opposed to the governing Labor Party in London. There isn't anything Gordon Brown could really do.

                  A rough understanding would be like the Massachusetts in 2008 releasing some IRA terrorist who had blown up a British Airways flight and been sentenced under MA state law while being tried in the Hague. If MA had provisions for pardon by the governor (which I assume they do).

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                  • #84
                    Re: Global War on Terror III: Dick Cheney's Hague ICC Vacation

                    Originally posted by BoomGoestheDynamite View Post
                    We could but that would misunderstands the UK's role in this. Ever since Tony Blair's Labor government decided to precede with devolution to curb any Scottish, Welsh, or Northern Irish independence movements in the 90s, certain government functions have been returned to the 3 "Celtic" kingdoms. This decision was made by a Scottish government minister, currently a Scottish National Party member, directly opposed to the governing Labor Party in London. There isn't anything Gordon Brown could really do.

                    A rough understanding would be like the Massachusetts in 2008 releasing some IRA terrorist who had blown up a British Airways flight and been sentenced under MA state law while being tried in the Hague. If MA had provisions for pardon by the governor (which I assume they do).
                    Are Scots the Queen's subjects or not? If so, the Court of St. James needs to be "impressed" on how upset the people of the US are with the actions of one of Her Majesty's officials.

                    PNGing the ambassador probably is a step we've never taken with the UK. But, without some forceful action on our part, we're just words, not action.
                    CCT '77 & '78
                    4 kids
                    5 grandsons (BCA 7/09, CJA 5/14, JDL 8/14, JFL 6/16, PJL 7/18)
                    1 granddaughter (EML 4/18)

                    ”Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both.”
                    - Benjamin Franklin

                    Banned from the St. Lawrence University Facebook page - March 2016 (But I got better).

                    I want to live forever. So far, so good.

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                    • #85
                      Re: Global War on Terror III: Dick Cheney's Hague ICC Vacation

                      I started here ...

                      http://www.boycottscotland.com/

                      And I am no longer buying Scotch ... Jameson and Kentucky bourbon here I come.
                      "We in America do not have government by the majority. We have government by the majority who participate." -Thomas Jefferson

                      "I confess I enjoy democracy immensely. It is incomparably idiotic, and hence incomparably amusing." -H. L. Mencken

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                      • #86
                        Re: Global War on Terror III: Dick Cheney's Hague ICC Vacation

                        Originally posted by ScottM View Post
                        I started here ...

                        http://www.boycottscotland.com/

                        And I am no longer buying Scotch ... Jameson and Kentucky bourbon here I come.
                        Freedom Fries.

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                        • #87
                          Re: Global War on Terror III: Dick Cheney's Hague ICC Vacation

                          Originally posted by Slap Shot View Post
                          Freedom Fries.
                          A guy I went to school with was on that PanAm flight, so I have no problems letting the Scots know what I think of their actions.
                          "We in America do not have government by the majority. We have government by the majority who participate." -Thomas Jefferson

                          "I confess I enjoy democracy immensely. It is incomparably idiotic, and hence incomparably amusing." -H. L. Mencken

                          sigpic

                          Comment


                          • #88
                            Originally posted by ScottM View Post
                            A guy I went to school with was on that PanAm flight, so I have no problems letting the Scots know what I think of their actions.
                            No one would minimize the loss but not only is there speculation this guy wasn't guilty in the first place, he's got little time left to live. I'd be more ****ed with his hero's welcome and Khadaffi Jr. than with anything having to do with the Scots. However, I do understand your sentiment if not your stance.

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                            • #89
                              Re: Global War on Terror III: Dick Cheney's Hague ICC Vacation

                              Originally posted by Slap Shot View Post
                              No one would minimize the loss but not only is there speculation this guy wasn't guilty in the first place, he's got little time left to live. I'd be more ****ed with his hero's welcome and Khadaffi Jr. than with anything having to do with the Scots. However, I do understand your sentiment if not your stance.
                              The guy should rot in jail til he dies. "Speculation" that he's not guilty doesn't excuse this act... if he has enough evidence he's not guilty, go through that channel. Using this bs (whether true or not) to justify this is wrong. There's a benefit to the families of knowing his last breath will be in prison, not at home. They should have been afforded that right.
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                              • #90
                                Re: Global War on Terror III: Dick Cheney's Hague ICC Vacation

                                I was in Canada last week. The local coverage was dominated by the Lockerbie story and obviously people were outraged.
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