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  • #91
    Re: Global War on Terror III: Dick Cheney's Hague ICC Vacation

    If they wanted to be "compassionate", they could have treated him for cancer while in prison. Sending him home to a hero's welcome was asinine.

    The people on that flight didn't get to go home and spend their last days with their families. Neither should he.
    "I went over the facts in my head, and admired how much uglier the situation had just become. Over the years I've learned that ignorance is more than just bliss. It's freaking orgasmic ecstasy".- Harry Dresden, Blood Rites


    Western Michigan Bronco Hockey- 2012 Mason Cup Champions

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    • #92
      Re: Global War on Terror III: Dick Cheney's Hague ICC Vacation

      To be devil's advocate, arguably the "compassion" is for his family, not him. Not saying I agree with their decision -- I think they should simply treat him in prison -- but at least it makes some sense that way.
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      • #93
        Re: Global War on Terror III: Dick Cheney's Hague ICC Vacation

        Originally posted by Kepler View Post
        To be devil's advocate, arguably the "compassion" is for his family, not him. Not saying I agree with their decision -- I think they should simply treat him in prison -- but at least it makes some sense that way.
        No, I don't think it does. Compassion for his family would have been letting them come to Scotland and visiting him before he dies.
        My Four Favorite teams:
        RIT and anyone who is beating Canisius
        Cornell and anyone who is beating Harvard

        If tyranny and oppression come to this land, it will be in the guise of fighting a foreign enemy. - James Madison

        I am not afraid of terrorism, and I want the Government to stop being afraid on my behalf. I understand that it will not be possible to stop all terrorist acts. I am not afraid!!!!

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        • #94
          Re: Global War on Terror III: Dick Cheney's Hague ICC Vacation

          Originally posted by MattS View Post
          No, I don't think it does. Compassion for his family would have been letting them come to Scotland and visiting him before he dies.
          Apparently his family even moved to Scotland or had a temporary residence there so the move by Hollyrood is quite strange. I don't think most people would have a problem with his family visiting the guy in prison. Its things like that which, imo, are the best testament to the superior values of 21st Century Western Civilization vis a vis a country like Libya.

          Scotland better pray he doesn't make a miraculous recovery, because if this guy is still walking around in 2011...
          Last edited by BoomGoestheDynamite; 08-24-2009, 12:37 PM.

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          • #95
            Re: Global War on Terror III: Dick Cheney's Hague ICC Vacation

            Originally posted by BoomGoestheDynamite View Post
            Apparently his family even moved to Scotland or had a temporary residence there so the move by Hollyrood is quite strange. I don't think most people would have a problem with his family visiting the guy in prison. Its things like that which, imo, are the best testament to the superior values of 21st Century Western Civilization vis a vis a country like Libya.

            Scotland better pray he doesn't make a miraculous recovery, because if this guy is still walking around in 2011...
            Obviously I didn't know his family was allowed in Scotland. I think is more compassion than he deserved.
            My Four Favorite teams:
            RIT and anyone who is beating Canisius
            Cornell and anyone who is beating Harvard

            If tyranny and oppression come to this land, it will be in the guise of fighting a foreign enemy. - James Madison

            I am not afraid of terrorism, and I want the Government to stop being afraid on my behalf. I understand that it will not be possible to stop all terrorist acts. I am not afraid!!!!

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            • #96
              Re: Global War on Terror III: Dick Cheney's Hague ICC Vacation

              Ghadafi may be a resident of the Garden State. If you live in Englewood, NJ, you may want to talk to your insurance agent....
              CCT '77 & '78
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              • #97
                Re: Global War on Terror III: Dick Cheney's Hague ICC Vacation

                When did they change his name? This is like Mao or Peking or Sixto Lezcano.
                Cornell University
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                • #98
                  Re: Global War on Terror III: Dick Cheney's Hague ICC Vacation

                  You gotta love Peter King.

                  Peter King, the New York congressman likely to challenge Democratic Sen. Kirsten Gillibrand in 2010, is blasting the Obama administration's decision to investigate Bush-era CIA interrogations.

                  "It's bullsh*t. It's disgraceful. You wonder which side they're on," the Long Island Republican told Politico Tuesday.


                  http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com...cision-bullst/
                  Fighting the good fight

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                  • #99
                    Re: Global War on Terror III: Dick Cheney's Hague ICC Vacation

                    Originally posted by SPIN CONTROL View Post
                    You gotta love Peter King.

                    Peter King, the New York congressman likely to challenge Democratic Sen. Kirsten Gillibrand in 2010, is blasting the Obama administration's decision to investigate Bush-era CIA interrogations.

                    "It's bullsh*t. It's disgraceful. You wonder which side they're on," the Long Island Republican told Politico Tuesday.


                    http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com...cision-bullst/
                    Absurd. We're a government of laws, not men. You don't get to jettison legal requirements because you feel like it. Spare me the ticking time bomb rationale. That "scenario" besides being a fanciful creation of Hollywood is riddled with holes.

                    I assume King would be singing a different tune if this was the UK torturing IRA operatives. But hes always been a hypocrite of the worst order in that regard.

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                    • Re: Global War on Terror III: Dick Cheney's Hague ICC Vacation

                      Originally posted by BoomGoestheDynamite View Post
                      Spare me the ticking time bomb rationale. That "scenario" besides being a fanciful creation of Hollywood is riddled with holes.
                      I would say the early morning hours of 9/11/01 was a ticking time bomb and not some "fanciful creation of Hollywood".

                      Fighting the good fight

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                      • Re: Global War on Terror III: Dick Cheney's Hague ICC Vacation

                        Not a big fan of investigating previous administrations in general, but I think I draw the line at threatening people's families no matter how dispicable the prisoner is. At what point do you Bush admin defenders draw the line? At anything?
                        Legally drunk???? If its "legal", what's the ------- problem?!? - George Carlin

                        Ever notice how everybody who drives slower than you is an idiot, and everybody who drives faster is a maniac? - George Carlin

                        "I've never seen so much reason and bullsh*t contained in ONE MAN."

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                        • Re: Global War on Terror III: Dick Cheney's Hague ICC Vacation

                          I think Holder/Obama's plan to even investigate actions condoned or approved of by a prior administration sends a pretty stark message to the counter-terrorism crew: Cover your own ***, in case the next administration tries to throw you under the bus. This is especially true since MOC of both parties were apprised of these very same actions, and didn't raise a finger in dissent. Moreover, those who wrap themselves in the Constitution and "American Values" while they abhor the conduct of "rogue operatives" conveniently ignore the fact the CIA is still killing Pakistanis on a near-daily basis. Yeah, it's a pretty ***** dirty business dealing with people intent on killing you. And sometimes, the Sunshine and Lollipops approach doesn't work.
                          "We in America do not have government by the majority. We have government by the majority who participate." -Thomas Jefferson

                          "I confess I enjoy democracy immensely. It is incomparably idiotic, and hence incomparably amusing." -H. L. Mencken

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                          • Re: Global War on Terror III: Dick Cheney's Hague ICC Vacation

                            Originally posted by ScottM View Post
                            I think Holder/Obama's plan to even investigate actions condoned or approved of by a prior administration sends a pretty stark message to the counter-terrorism crew: Cover your own ***, in case the next administration tries to throw you under the bus. This is especially true since MOC of both parties were apprised of these very same actions, and didn't raise a finger in dissent. Moreover, those who wrap themselves in the Constitution and "American Values" while they abhor the conduct of "rogue operatives" conveniently ignore the fact the CIA is still killing Pakistanis on a near-daily basis. Yeah, it's a pretty ***** dirty business dealing with people intent on killing you. And sometimes, the Sunshine and Lollipops approach doesn't work.
                            I'm all for killing the bad guys. However, I'll ask again - is there anything you don't condone, and if so, what?
                            Legally drunk???? If its "legal", what's the ------- problem?!? - George Carlin

                            Ever notice how everybody who drives slower than you is an idiot, and everybody who drives faster is a maniac? - George Carlin

                            "I've never seen so much reason and bullsh*t contained in ONE MAN."

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                            • Re: Global War on Terror III: Dick Cheney's Hague ICC Vacation

                              Originally posted by ScottM View Post
                              I think Holder/Obama's plan to even investigate actions condoned or approved of by a prior administration sends a pretty stark message to the counter-terrorism crew: Cover your own ***, in case the next administration tries to throw you under the bus. This is especially true since MOC of both parties were apprised of these very same actions, and didn't raise a finger in dissent. Moreover, those who wrap themselves in the Constitution and "American Values" while they abhor the conduct of "rogue operatives" conveniently ignore the fact the CIA is still killing Pakistanis on a near-daily basis. Yeah, it's a pretty ***** dirty business dealing with people intent on killing you. And sometimes, the Sunshine and Lollipops approach doesn't work.
                              For the record, I wouldn't prosecute operatives unless they really really went nutty on prisoners beyond any approved directive.

                              Change the law then. I have less problem with the CIA attempting to assassinate Al Qaeda operatives than I do with an approved policy of torture that violates the Geneva Convention and the Constitution and has a horrible record of producing reliable information. If were going to compromise our "moral position" and give the zealots a rallying cry to take to the arab street to recruit, i'd prefer its one that works.

                              And the Democrats were quite complicit in this. I'm not a member of that party and consider their lack of much needed "opposition" to things like the Patriot Act and the Iraq War pretty ****ing. At the same time, this was the Executive Branch's baby and while I see the value in moving on, its more from a political real politik perspective I can't say I'm terribly upset this is being investigated.
                              Last edited by BoomGoestheDynamite; 08-25-2009, 05:02 PM.

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                              • Re: Global War on Terror III: Dick Cheney's Hague ICC Vacation

                                Originally posted by BoomGoestheDynamite View Post
                                Change the law then. I have less problem with the CIA attempting to assassinate Al Qaeda operatives than I do with an approved policy of torture that violates the Geneva Convention and the Constitution and has a horrible record of producing reliable information. If were going to compromise our "moral position" and give the zealots a rallying cry to take to the arab street to recruit, i'd prefer its one that works.
                                We don't have a "moral position". If we had a "moral position", whatever the hell that is, we'd probably stop sending drones into Pakistan and wiping out civilians, including children and women, along with the Taliban and al-Qaeda. Instead we'd send hit squads for more precise kills, or at least farm that work out. Moreover, if the tactics and processes complained of now were approved of previously, why should they be reviewed to placate later political agendas? I'd hate to think that the new rendition policy of the O-man, as well as bringing a cross-agency team of interrogators under the purview of the NSC would be second guessed for political reasons by another President. God forbid the O-man have to give sworn testimony about why he ordered certain actions to protect the nation.

                                Edit: I think my biggest concern is that operatives operating under a discrete set of rules may be subject to later prosecution or censure for following those rules if the political winds change. I have no problems prosecuting those who violate the law or the rules, as has been done, but I am more concerned about dragging "innocent" personnel into a politically motivated process.
                                Last edited by ScottM; 08-25-2009, 05:15 PM.
                                "We in America do not have government by the majority. We have government by the majority who participate." -Thomas Jefferson

                                "I confess I enjoy democracy immensely. It is incomparably idiotic, and hence incomparably amusing." -H. L. Mencken

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