Global War on Terror III: Dick Cheney's Hague ICC Vacation

[Priceless]

Re: Global War on Terror III: Dick Cheney's Hague ICC Vacation

Neither. Elections have consequences. But the Maryland gerrymander is in MY backyard. And this gerrymander is rather convoluted, don't you think??

I thought Congressional Districts had to be geographically continuous. There was one CD in Florida that was only ruled out because it violated the Voting Rights Act. It was two completely different areas about 50 miles apart that was only connected by a railroad track. But I see that Maryland isn't listed as a state that requires Preclearance under the VRA.

[bronconick]

Re: Global War on Terror III: Dick Cheney's Hague ICC Vacation

They need to pass an addendum to the Voting Rights Act that ALL states have to have their gerrymandering approved by a class of 2nd graders, who have better sense than this.

[LynahFan]

Re: Global War on Terror III: Dick Cheney's Hague ICC Vacation

I thought Congressional Districts had to be geographically continuous. There was one CD in Florida that was only ruled out because it violated the Voting Rights Act. It was two completely different areas about 50 miles apart that was only connected by a railroad track. But I see that Maryland isn't listed as a state that requires Preclearance under the VRA.

Pretty sure that MD district is continuous - you have to look closely, but I think all the tendrils are there. (assuming that land under water still counts as connecting)

[5mn_Major]

Re: Global War on Terror III: Dick Cheney's Hague ICC Vacation

They need to pass an addendum to the Voting Rights Act that ALL states have to have their gerrymandering approved by a class of 2nd graders, who have better sense than this.

Would it be worse if districting was forced to happen at the county level (and just round up or down)? It could be one approach...but the remedy could be worse than the disease.

[Priceless]

Re: Global War on Terror III: Dick Cheney's Hague ICC Vacation

Pretty sure that MD district is continuous - you have to look closely, but I think all the tendrils are there. (assuming that land under water still counts as connecting)

Holy siht, you're right. That's amazing. And sad.

I did a redistricting of Maryland a few months ago just for gits and shiggles. If I can figure out how to upload it to the board I will.

ETA:
*****http://img32.imageshack.us/img32/669/marylandb.jpg******

[Kepler]

Re: Global War on Terror III: Dick Cheney's Hague ICC Vacation

The "contiguity" requirement is pretty lax -- there used to be districts in FL and IIRC TX where the connection was a highway.

The MD gerrymander is egregious and I'll be voting against it if it is on the state ballot. The fact that the GOP uses the same tactics in states under their control doesn't affect my feelings -- this is in my backyard and I can have a say.

Interestingly it may be black MD liberals who vote it down. They also got hosed in the redrawing.

[Kepler]

Re: Global War on Terror III: Dick Cheney's Hague ICC Vacation

Holy siht, you're right. That's amazing. And sad.

I did a redistricting of Maryland a few months ago just for gits and shiggles. If I can figure out how to upload it to the board I will.

ETA:
*****http://img32.imageshack.us/img32/669/marylandb.jpg******

Is that a sum of least squares algorithm on perimeters? It actually looks very clean.

[Priceless]

Re: Global War on Terror III: Dick Cheney's Hague ICC Vacation

Is that a sum of least squares algorithm on perimeters? It actually looks very clean.

Nope, did it by hand on a site that allows you to draw districts yourself..if I can find the link I'll post it.

Found it: Dave Bradlee

I also played this cool game that teaches you how to gerrymander and how to draw a real district.

[Craig P.]

Re: Global War on Terror III: Dick Cheney's Hague ICC Vacation

Would it be worse if districting was forced to happen at the county level (and just round up or down)?

You'd have to break it down further than that. Just about any big city will be large enough to require multiple representatives.

There's also an important philosophical issue that I think should be addressed: Should districts tend toward homogeneity, or should they tend toward being as broadly representative as possible? I think I lean more toward the former. Even setting aside gerrymandering, it's an important question for the drawing of districts.

[MaizeRage]

Re: Global War on Terror III: Dick Cheney's Hague ICC Vacation

I know I'm late to a stupid argument but:

1. I'd consider Wright county a metro county, especially with how it has grown in recent years. It's become/becoming the new outer ring. St. Michael/Albertville is absolutely an exurb. Buffalo is not.

2. The numbers for the 2010 sixth district race may be a little skewed since Bachmann was running against a state rep from St. Cloud, who would presumably do better in her home town. I don't know, but it would be interesting to compare them to '08 when she ran against a candidate from the Cities.

[LynahFan]

Re: Global War on Terror III: Dick Cheney's Hague ICC Vacation

You'd have to break it down further than that. Just about any big city will be large enough to require multiple representatives.

There's also an important philosophical issue that I think should be addressed: Should districts tend toward homogeneity, or should they tend toward being as broadly representative as possible? I think I lean more toward the former. Even setting aside gerrymandering, it's an important question for the drawing of districts.

Absolutely. If the population is 50-50 on an issue, is it better to have two districts that are 50-50, or is it better to have everybody on each side in their own districts?

For the sake of compromise and actually getting anything done in the legistlature, it sure seems like it would be better to have two 50-50 districts so that each representative had to actually consider both sides of the issue.

[5mn_Major]

Re: Global War on Terror III: Dick Cheney's Hague ICC Vacation

There's also an important philosophical issue that I think should be addressed: Should districts tend toward homogeneity, or should they tend toward being as broadly representative as possible? I think I lean more toward the former. Even setting aside gerrymandering, it's an important question for the drawing of districts.

Yeah that's a toughie.

By having districts be homogenious, you could make the argument that a rep would better represent the will of his/her contituents because their needs are clear cut. The implications are that with a diverse and competing set of perspectives...that a rep might be more tempted to say 'the heck with it' and vote based on their own bias or even that of special interests.

On the other hand, you could make the argument that with a more diverse continuency...that with our two party system, that a dem or gop rep would not be 'elected for life' due to uncompetitive races.

In either case, it really comes down to the quality of rep to overcome the temptation to ignore their continuency inherent in either an elected for life homogenious or ambiguious 50/50 district. I see problems either way but might also tend towards 50/50 districts.

[Kepler]

Re: Global War on Terror III: Dick Cheney's Hague ICC Vacation

Absolutely. If the population is 50-50 on an issue, is it better to have two districts that are 50-50, or is it better to have everybody on each side in their own districts?

For the sake of compromise and actually getting anything done in the legistlature, it sure seems like it would be better to have two 50-50 districts so that each representative had to actually consider both sides of the issue.

However, the problem homogenous districts are supposed to solve is when the population splits 60/40 on an issue. If ten districts are divided homogeneously you get 6 reps from the majority vs 4 from the minority. If they are divided heterogeneously, you get 10 reps from the majority and the minority gets bupkus.

It's hard to find a balance. We tend to think of "set aside" districts now as racial because of the 60's SCOTUS decisions, but it seems to me that the idea goes back to having representation from, say, rural districts vs city districts, or cattlemen vs farmers, or fishermen vs landlubbers.

[joecct]

Re: Global War on Terror III: Dick Cheney's Hague ICC Vacation

Is that a sum of least squares algorithm on perimeters? It actually looks very clean.

It also looks close to what the Maryland GOP proposed. That was DOA (or maybe Dead Before Arrival).

[Kepler]

Re: Global War on Terror III: Dick Cheney's Hague ICC Vacation

It also looks close to what the Maryland GOP proposed. That was DOA (or maybe Dead Before Arrival).

I'm all for redistricting by an independent commission, but incumbents will always find a way to stop that.

The other problem is one party doesn't want to unilaterally disarm, but for that perhaps they can try what they are trying to do with EVs and create a system that will only kick in when a critical mass of states adopt it.

I think we should stop apportioning Congressmen by geography completely. Congressional districts should be virtual and based on communities that are meaningful in the contemporary world. Some ideas for districts:

+ Pentacostals
+ Gun nuts
+ Furries
+ College hockey fans
+ Dressage competitors
+ Gang bangers
+ Militiamen

I would pay to watch CSPAN with debates between Congressman (R - Dark Knight fanboys) and Congressman (D - Anarcho-Syndicalist Dairy Farmers).