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Global War on Terror III: Dick Cheney's Hague ICC Vacation

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  • Re: Global War on Terror III: Dick Cheney's Hague ICC Vacation

    Originally posted by 5mn_Major View Post
    And that wasn't even my original point.

    The Bush administration's core and constant message was terror, terror, terror, year after year...and supplimented it by playing with the terror alert level. Obama's vastly improved approach to dealing with AQ included considerable success without the need to make it society's top priority.
    Leave some Kool Aid for the rest of us, will ya? "Vastly improved approach." You *******s are living in a fantasy world. But you'll be shaken out of it next year when Deadmeat gets sent back to Chicago to resume his career as a "community organizer." Virtually every aspect of his "vastly improved approach" is at variance with the positions he took as a candidate. And for this, *******s applaud him. And reach for the airbrush.
    Last edited by Old Pio; 10-03-2011, 11:25 PM.
    2011 Poser of the Year & Pulitzer Prize winning machine gunner.

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    • Re: Global War on Terror III: Dick Cheney's Hague ICC Vacation

      Originally posted by 5mn_Major View Post
      And that wasn't even my original point.

      The Bush administration's core and constant message was terror, terror, terror, year after year...and supplimented it by playing with the terror alert level. Obama's vastly improved approach to dealing with AQ included considerable success without the need to make it society's top priority.
      And the underpants bomber represented a Deadmeat "success" according to Senorita Incompetence.
      2011 Poser of the Year & Pulitzer Prize winning machine gunner.

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      • Re: Global War on Terror III: Dick Cheney's Hague ICC Vacation

        Originally posted by Rover View Post
        Finally, while some knuckledragger pointed out that drone technology was new in 2001, it wasn't in 2008 yet Bush used this weapon far more sparingly than Obama. Want proof: Check out the list of AQ bad guys bagged in the past three years vs the previous 7 and get back to me. "No difference" indeed - tell that to OBL.
        Sure, because it's just *that* easy to roll out a new technology. I mean, they test fired a few missiles in 2001, so why didn't they have hundreds of drones on the front lines by 2002? Are these guys incompetent or what????

        Also, take a look at when the drone attacks started to increase: 2008, while Obama was still off earning his Nobel peace prize. Gee, I wonder why they increased in 2008. Maybe because the administration in charge (you know, the one with no foreign affairs capability whatsoever) had already worked out a better relationship with Pakistan, to the point that increasing the drone strikes was actually Pakistan's idea. But I guess Obama somehow gets credit for that, too, even though it wasn't his idea and it happened nearly a full year before he became CIC, right?
        Last edited by LynahFan; 10-04-2011, 01:23 AM.
        If you don't change the world today, how can it be any better tomorrow?

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        • Re: Global War on Terror III: Dick Cheney's Hague ICC Vacation

          Originally posted by LynahFan View Post
          SBut I guess Obama somehow gets credit for that, too, even though it wasn't his idea and it happened nearly a full year before he became CIC, right?
          If you insist, I guess we can chalk that up to Obama

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          • Re: Global War on Terror III: Dick Cheney's Hague ICC Vacation

            Originally posted by LynahFan View Post
            Sure, because it's just *that* easy to roll out a new technology. I mean, they test fired a few missiles in 2001, so why didn't they have hundreds of drones on the front lines by 2002? Are these guys incompetent or what????

            Also, take a look at when the drone attacks started to increase: 2008, while Obama was still off earning his Nobel peace prize. Gee, I wonder why they increased in 2008. Maybe because the administration in charge (you know, the one with no foreign affairs capability whatsoever) had already worked out a better relationship with Pakistan, to the point that increasing the drone strikes was actually Pakistan's idea. But I guess Obama somehow gets credit for that, too, even though it wasn't his idea and it happened nearly a full year before he became CIC, right?
            Oh yeah, they worked out a swell relationship with Pakistan didn't they. Are you really this stupid, because usually you're one of the more thoughful ones out here. Do you really think either admin trusts Pakistan as far as they can throw them? Oh wait, maybe the Bush admin who fell in with con artist Chalibi in Iraq and thought Putin was a swell guy.

            Continuing with your straw man stupidity, who said drones should have been as robust in 2002 as they are now? However, by 2008 there's no reason we shouldn't have been refocused on Afghanistan AND upped the drone attacks to the level they're been at since Obama mercifully took over. But stay in your own little world, where the very people who gave us the most ill advised war in US history would have suddenly pivoted and made all the right moves if only given another term in office to get it right. Do you believe in Santa Claus too?
            Last edited by Rover; 10-04-2011, 09:07 AM.
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            • Re: Global War on Terror III: Dick Cheney's Hague ICC Vacation

              Originally posted by Old Pio View Post
              "Cavalier about civilian deaths?" That's a GD lie. You'd prefer GI's get killed instead? You've really just reverted to type here lately, haven't you? Arrogant, condescending and untruthful.

              As long as we're giving Deadmeat credit for every military success in US history, from Breed's hill to Gettysburg and everything since, why don't we give him credit for liberating Auschwitz? He's claimed his uncle (or was it grandfather?) was there. 'Course that meant the old boy had to be serving in the Red Army, but these are just details for the greatest military leader since Gengis Kahn. Or as John Kerry would pronounce it: Jen jis.
              Soooo....when the governor of your state talked about her father dying for his country in WWII...even though he died approx 10 years after the war was over....you were similarly outraged, right? Right?

              PS - Good luck with your dream of seeing a President Perry or President Romney. Might as well hope for Reagan's ghost to win in 2012 as it has about the same chance as those two.
              Legally drunk???? If its "legal", what's the ------- problem?!? - George Carlin

              Ever notice how everybody who drives slower than you is an idiot, and everybody who drives faster is a maniac? - George Carlin

              "I've never seen so much reason and bullsh*t contained in ONE MAN."

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              • Re: Global War on Terror III: Dick Cheney's Hague ICC Vacation

                Originally posted by Rover View Post
                Continuing with your straw man stupidity, who said drones should have been as robust in 2002 as they are now? However, by 2008 there's no reason we shouldn't have been refocused on Afghanistan AND upped the drone attacks to the level they're been at since Obama mercifully took over.
                You're still missing the fact that the ramp up in drone attacks DID start in 2008. Per wiki, there were only 4 in 2007, 33 in 2008, and 53 in 2009. So if you want to give Obama credit for having the good sense to expand on a program that Bush started, by all means be my guest.
                If you don't change the world today, how can it be any better tomorrow?

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                • Re: Global War on Terror III: Dick Cheney's Hague ICC Vacation

                  Originally posted by LynahFan View Post
                  You're still missing the fact that the ramp up in drone attacks DID start in 2008. Per wiki, there were only 4 in 2007, 33 in 2008, and 53 in 2009. So if you want to give Obama credit for having the good sense to expand on a program that Bush started, by all means be my guest.
                  I thought your point was that these are internal military decisions made perhaps decades in advance given the design cycle, and that the administration makes no difference? Or is that what you are saying -- giving Obama credit is as silly as giving Bush credit? I am honestly confused by what you are arguing here. I made the point upstream that tech roll-outs can be very slow and the fact that drones have been used more under Obama does not per se argue that Bush had the option and declined it.

                  Originally posted by Rover
                  Are you really this stupid, because usually you're one of the more thoughful ones out here.
                  Please stop that right now. Save that kind of thing for the genuine eejit posters who earn it (or better still, Ignore them). LynahFan is far, far more likely to both post intelligently and take the high road than pretty much anybody who posts regularly on political threads. I don't agree with him on this point, either, and there are points he is making that appear to me to be either muddled or perhaps just poorly expressed, but for goodness sake, he's way more careful with his rhetoric than most of us, and if he doesn't deserve the benefit of the doubt than none of us do. All ad hominum does is this:

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                  • Re: Global War on Terror III: Dick Cheney's Hague ICC Vacation

                    Originally posted by Kepler View Post
                    I thought your point was that these are internal military decisions made perhaps decades in advance given the design cycle, and that the administration makes no difference? Or is that what you are saying -- giving Obama credit is as silly as giving Bush credit? I am honestly confused by what you are arguing here. I made the point upstream that tech roll-outs can be very slow and the fact that drones have been used more under Obama does not per se argue that Bush had the option and declined it.
                    You're very close, so maybe my message isn't too badly muddled. My point is not that it makes NO difference, but it makes much less difference than partisans on either side would like to believe, particularly on the economy and foreign relations. These things do take many years (generally not decades) to develop, so there's only so much that any one administration can do. Partisans assign far too much credit to the guy on their side and 100% of the blame to the guy on the other side - and all four combinations bug me, so I can't resist calling it out when I see it. So yes, giving Bush all the credit is exactly equally silly as giving it all to Obama. It just so happens that right now 1) we have a Democratic President and 2) there are more outspoken partisan liberals on this board than conservatives, so my comments tend toward calling out liberals for over-crediting Obama right now. Check back with me when we have a Republican president and the board is dominated by posters from the newly formed SEC hockey conference...
                    If you don't change the world today, how can it be any better tomorrow?

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                    • Re: Global War on Terror III: Dick Cheney's Hague ICC Vacation

                      Originally posted by LynahFan View Post
                      You're very close, so maybe my message isn't too badly muddled. My point is not that it makes NO difference, but it makes much less difference than partisans on either side would like to believe, particularly on the economy and foreign relations. These things do take many years (generally not decades) to develop, so there's only so much that any one administration can do. Partisans assign far too much credit to the guy on their side and 100% of the blame to the guy on the other side - and all four combinations bug me, so I can't resist calling it out when I see it. So yes, giving Bush all the credit is exactly equally silly as giving it all to Obama. It just so happens that right now 1) we have a Democratic President and 2) there are more outspoken partisan liberals on this board than conservatives, so my comments tend toward calling out liberals for over-crediting Obama right now. Check back with me when we have a Republican president and the board is dominated by posters from the newly formed SEC hockey conference...
                      So you (and others) probably wouldn't mind putting an end to this topic, esp with Keps reminder below.

                      But it doesn't appear that this is a matter of saying that Bush and Obama don't deserve all or none of the credit. There has been a big, huge difference in approach. One included pushing a handful of third worlders to be enemies...and disparging allies (like 'old Europe')...while taking up action by not just diverting 9/11 to Iraq but ignoring everyone elses input on the matter and errecting a missle shield with the obvious target of one of the world's most important independents (Russia). This was coupled with the number one message coming from the Bush administration being terror. This is almost the polar opposite approach from the Obama administration where in a hugely positive development, the GWOT has disappeared from the main stage (even as positive results pour in).

                      So sorry, but I find it hard to just gloss over the differences.
                      Go Gophers!

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                      • Re: Global War on Terror III: Dick Cheney's Hague ICC Vacation

                        Originally posted by LynahFan View Post
                        Check back with me when we have a Republican president and the board is dominated by posters from the newly formed SEC hockey conference...
                        Both those things are awful to contemplate.

                        Though I hear rumblings the SEC is courting Notre Dame, RPI and Cornell.
                        Last edited by Kepler; 10-04-2011, 12:34 PM.
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                        • Re: Global War on Terror III: Dick Cheney's Hague ICC Vacation

                          Originally posted by Kepler View Post
                          Both those things are awful to contemplate.

                          Though I hear rumblings the SEC is courting Notre Dame, RPI and Cornell.
                          I hear Vermont
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                          • Re: Global War on Terror III: Dick Cheney's Hague ICC Vacation

                            Originally posted by Priceless View Post
                            I hear Vermont
                            Jesus, I've been down here too long. I glanced at the map and thought "what's up with New Hampshire?"
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                            • Re: Global War on Terror III: Dick Cheney's Hague ICC Vacation

                              Originally posted by Kepler View Post
                              Please stop that right now. Save that kind of thing for the genuine eejit posters who earn it (or better still, Ignore them). LynahFan is far, far more likely to both post intelligently and take the high road than pretty much anybody who posts regularly on political threads. I don't agree with him on this point, either, and there are points he is making that appear to me to be either muddled or perhaps just poorly expressed, but for goodness sake, he's way more careful with his rhetoric than most of us, and if he doesn't deserve the benefit of the doubt than none of us do. All ad hominum does is this:
                              Kep, kindly stick to making your usual well thought out posts and skip being board moderator unless you're getting paid to do so. While I would normally agree with you, anybody who trots out a straw man argument and then argues against it gets the scorched earth policy (the drone attacks in 2002 in this example).
                              Legally drunk???? If its "legal", what's the ------- problem?!? - George Carlin

                              Ever notice how everybody who drives slower than you is an idiot, and everybody who drives faster is a maniac? - George Carlin

                              "I've never seen so much reason and bullsh*t contained in ONE MAN."

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                              • Re: Global War on Terror III: Dick Cheney's Hague ICC Vacation

                                Originally posted by Rover View Post
                                Soooo....when the governor of your state talked about her father dying for his country in WWII...even though he died approx 10 years after the war was over....you were similarly outraged, right? Right?

                                PS - Good luck with your dream of seeing a President Perry or President Romney. Might as well hope for Reagan's ghost to win in 2012 as it has about the same chance as those two.
                                Nobody's ever suggested she's the smartest guy in the room or gives anybody tingles. What difference does it make, anyway. Deadmeat is a gaffe machine, which goes unremarked upon by the MSM. Perhaps we can talk about the "spontaneous" trip to Target his wife "Michael" made the other day.

                                Maybe he wins, maybe he loses, we'll see. But there's more than a little flop sweat among national Democrats and your whistling past a graveyard doesn't change that a bit.
                                Last edited by Old Pio; 10-04-2011, 02:21 PM.
                                2011 Poser of the Year & Pulitzer Prize winning machine gunner.

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